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Thread: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

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  1. #1

    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Again, thank you for your opinion (it is an opinion), but it is not "put to bed", it is your opinion, and you are starting to hit the point where you are dismissing other peoples experience, many with as much as you I'm sure. The air circulation is an issue for me as I only have half a screen top left, and classic dome fixtures would take up at least half of the remaining space, and bar lights that are available to me would cover even more. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but stagnant air and hygiene is a top priority for me, red leg is truly awful.
    I'm asking you to understand that your opinion is not THE right way, it is one of multiple right ways. I'm going to be going to an expo in a couple months with breeders who use and who don't use uvb, testimonials and conditions of their animals does not vary based on lighting, if something is the norm in the UK and yields good results it doesn't mean North American norms result in sub par results.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    I mean that over here in Europe/UK the debate has been put to bed. The air circulation really isn't an issue, remove one of your 26 watt 6500k CFL bulbs and replace it with a 5% UVB bulb. Air circulation unaffected.

    With so many reasons to provide UVB that have now been shared, could you share your reasons why you think denying it is better for the animals?
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Replacing with a 13w 5% rated at 5000k will result in less plant growth is my primary reason, the room they are in is very poorly lit (dim at best during the day) and the plants are growing quite slowly as is, despite being in there for quite a while and having these plant species grow well in other well lit areas of my house. Maintaining the plants at a larger size (being able to give the frogs natural dense foliage, better humidity levels, absorbing nitrates from waste etc) is a priority for me, I'm already looking into 7500k and up bulbs to try to get the plants up to that dense cover. The main argument I've seen for why uvb is necessary is mbd and providing a more natural environment. Most other information sources I've consulted suggest supplementing with calcium, d3 and a multivitamin whether uvb is used or not. I am skeptical that a uvb bulb should be used in place of that, as they are in no way as strong as sunlight. Bearded dragon owners who use some of the strongest available uvb lights on the market still supplement with calcium and d3. This practice seems standard for animals with uvb requirements all across the spectrum. Due to this, and the success of many others, it seems reasonable to assume that calcium+d3 supplements is a reliable and safe way to keep red eyes healthy, whereas uvb done incorrectly (my tank wont be set up the same way yours are) with minimal/no supplements could cause issues. My current opinion is that calcium+d3 powder should be seen as the requirement, and uvb as the extra, rather than other way around. The powder seems a much more direct way to get those vitamins directly into the frog (assuming feeding is done correctly), uvb seems more difficult to determine if it is putting out enough until it is too late. But hey, maybe my opinion will change once I get them home, or I'll give the uvb a shot, notice a difference, and if so I am more than willing to admit I was wrong, but in the mean time calcium+d3 and a multivitamin will meet their needs, based on the experience of many.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    I don't know where you have got that information from, but I can assure you it's quite untrue. Luckily there are scientific studies available for example:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20206712

    Also, your plant growth won't be adversely affected by changing the bulb out.

    Clearly despite being a novice keeper you have decided to ask for advice, then only hear what you want to hear. I can't force you to provide the best possible living conditions for your animals, but I would at least like your decisions to be based upon the correct information. The information is all out there, you obviously don't want to take my word for it, perhaps I could at least encourage you to do your own research?
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    I am considering your information as well as others, I'm not just hearing what I want, I want what is best for my animals and am doing my research months before even looking at buying, I'm just not hearing information that indicates uvb is as necessary as you make it out to be. Your study is for bearded dragons, even most new owners know that uvb is a requirement for them, they are diurnal lizards from Australia, very different from a nocturnal frog from central america. But I do find it interesting that that little uvb lighting maintains a beardies d3 levels, but mind you they are basking animals, finding a nice high point to sit under the light, and are adapted to absorbing uvb and producing d3 that way. The abstract also doesn't indicate the uvb concentration used (unless I missed it, but I don't have access to the full study either). Again though, I asked for advice, got a good variety of opinions, have done my own research on both opinions presented in this forum post, I'm not sure what else to say other than that you seem to be in disbelief that someone could come to a researched conclusion other than your own, which again, it has been proven through practice as well as studies that RETF don't require supplemental uvb. I'm not sure why you refuse to acknowledge that a vast number of people have great success without it, including other posters on this topic, whose advice I have gone with over yours. That doesn't mean I haven't listened to you, I had to pick one or the other didn't I? It's insulting to the other forum posters as well as many successful breeders to say they are keeping their animals based on incorrect information.
    Also, plants tend to slow down under 5000k, at least in my experience. The room is dim, and growth has been much slower than I'm used to, even at 26w 6500k. Even if I bought all new plants that were larger, I've killed many a plant by taking a well established plant and moving it into dimmer lighting.

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