New Red-Eyed Tree Frog's condition. Question.

[irThumper]

The only way you will know if it is Chytrid for sure, in early stages, is if she is tested and comes up positive for B.d. The heat treatment for Chytrid is more involved than you think, so I would watch out going that route as frogs can dehydrate and die. The recommended treatment by our vet was an Itraconazole solution bath (it's by prescription), soak frog 5 minutes daily for 11 days, and do a complete breakdown/clean and bleach (1/2 cup regular bleach to 1 gallon of water) of EVERYTHING your frog comes in contact with every single day (use only non-porous, easily disinfected décor). Having to do this for all 7 of my frogs and each enclosure every day was exhausting but I got through it. This was just a preventative treatment too, as my original frogs never had any issues with this dreaded disease, and things seem same as usual for them 57 days after the last treatment. I planned on testing a few days after the final treatment to make doubly sure everyone was all clear, but our temps skyrocketed up into the upper 90's/100+ degrees, so I held off as I was worried the excessive heat would make the tests non-viable if the ice pack melted before reaching the lab. All the frogs seemed to handle treatment well except for Honey-Lime, my problem child. I think the medication adversely effected him, possibly exacerbating the gastric issues he's had from coccidiosis. He just doesn't want to eat, and when he does it seems to be painful or bother him somehow I think I'm going to have to wind up putting him on a prepared meal, like pacman food mixed with Reptaboost, something that is nutritious but easy to digest and without any hard bits like leg parts or heads.

I have no experience with using salt in the water, but I would beware of that until you get more info. I have, however, used 100% all natural organic coconut water (mixed with dechlor water) in place of Pedialyte with no apparent problems. If you suspect Chytrid then time is of the essence and you need to get her tested immediately, this can be a very fast acting disease, but conversely it can also hang on if the frog is getting other supportive therapy other than the anti-fungal treatment... at least this was my experience with my poor Pole Bean frog

[flybyferns]

Lisa is right. The only way to be sure is to test. I posted --> sent the link a few days ago- see post #4
The swab is a very simple process... but you need to call have the swab sent to you.
If the frog is still il, I may I respectfully suggest you move quickly.

I believe Josh's Frogs sell the swabs as well.

I have never used a salt bath for a tree frog.

As mentioned... ask the breeder if they spot test their offspring for:
Chytrid Fungus (B. dendrobatidis)
more importantly ~ ranavirus

A fresh fecal sample can be sent for detection of parasites.
If present , parasites, can be treated w Panacur, of which you can purchase from Dr Frye or a near-by herp vet.

This may help:
http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-vet-finder/
http://www.repticzone.com/articles/v...tedStates.html

[LilyPad]

I agree with the other ladies ^^ Getting him/her tested for parasites and chytrid is the best thing you can do right now, especially considering that this frog is wild caught. It would also be important so that the facility can test their current animals, because judging by their reviews, they have some serious issues going on. That's so frustrating, I'm sorry for your difficulties. I highly recommend researching reviews and asking a bazillion questions when purchasing animals in the future. You shouldn't have to, but some people are deceptive and tend to care more about their bottom line than anything else.

[MantidBro]

I agree with the other ladies ^^ Getting him/her tested for parasites and chytrid is the best thing you can do right now, especially considering that this frog is wild caught. It would also be important so that the facility can test their current animals, because judging by their reviews, they have some serious issues going on. That's so frustrating, I'm sorry for your difficulties. I highly recommend researching reviews and asking a bazillion questions when purchasing animals in the future. You shouldn't have to, but some people are deceptive and tend to care more about their bottom line than anything else.

Im very upset that they have animals like this and are selling them to people!! I had read reviews but it was my mistake not to research them in google. I only went by the reviews on their site. Its horrible too because i reviewed too soon and made it sound like all is well. Ill add a review on yelp and hopefully people will see that this is not the place to use. Ive tried messaging the guy twice but he wont respond whivh is aggravating. Its obvious that he does not care about the actual animals and that all he cares about is making money. If he cared about the animals, he would show some concern about my frog being ill.

[MantidBro]

Well the guy got back to me but didn't say much other than "it can't be chytrid because chytrid can't survive past 75F". Which I did also read so I may agree with that considering I've been keeping the temp closer to 80F for it.

But anyways, I get the feeling the frog will be okay. There is no more yucky, chunky shedding. And the throat heals more every day, proving to me that it was just an injury. Especially considering that is the only spot there was a mark.

I've been giving "her" uniodized salt baths, a very slight amount of salt, once a day. My friend has a degree in biology and recommended doing this. She said that pedialyte won't help with bacterial/fungal infections and that it's more for internal disturbances rather than external. She said that bacterial/fungal infections can't survive in salt, even if uniodized. She said that it has to be only a little amount of salt because if too much is used, it can hurt the frog. She says to use only a pinch, which I've been doing.

Last night I saw her crawling around, wide-eyed, looking healthy and alert. I really think she may end up being okay.

She's still not eating but she is at least not looking starved since I had hand-fed her a few times when I first got her, so that should hold her over for now. I think it'd help too if she became hungry because it'll push her into eating.

Oh! And she pooped again, and looks MUCH better now. It's more solid and not green now, looks more like Frenchy and Newbie's now. They continue to do very well by the way! Frenchy continues to chuckle at Newbie almost every night.

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

That's great to hear! I hope she continues to be great for you!

[LilyPad]

Just to clear things up, the pedialyte suggestion was not to "cure" the frog. The pedialyte was for the obvious dehydration that your frog was experiencing. I know little about chytrid treatment other than it is extremely contagious, and your frog exhibited fairly clear symptoms. I suggested a vet because it really is important to notify the facility that you got her from that their stock was exposed. Did you "hand feed" her or "force feed" her? That may have been the throat trauma.

[MantidBro]

That's great to hear! I hope she continues to be great for you!

Thanks! "She" is indeed seeming much better. Still no yucky shedding and her injury continues to heal. The only issue now is that she hasn't eaten yet. But I'm sure it will be soon. I doubt she would actually starve herself to death when there are crickets available.

[Tzunu un]

Well the guy got back to me but didn't say much other than "it can't be chytrid because chytrid can't survive past 75F". Which I did also read so I may agree with that considering I've been keeping the temp closer to 80F for it.

Using temps to cure chytrid isn't 100%
http://www.conservationevidence.com/actions/770


I haven't seen anyone stating that salt baths can cure chytrid (or that they are that safe for frogs)...I doubt that this amount of salt does anything to kill bacteria or fungus....higher amounts of salt in a bath willl actually dehydrate the frog as it won't be isotonic.

Pedialyte bath is a better choice in a pinch as it will help with dehydration.

More specific to frogs, Frog's N Things sells amphibian ringer's that is a good for rehydrating frogs....they also sell calcium gluconate that is good to replenish calcium and glucose. They sell a frog first aid kit that is good to have around for emergencies that has several items (including these) in it.
http://www.frogsnthings.com/storefro...og/health.html


As mentioned earlier, itraconazole baths or lamisil (terbinafine) baths are more accepted treatments for chytrid.
That being said, the only way to really tell if your heat treatment was successful is to test for chytrid afterwards.

Also remember that the frogs can get reinfected by items that weren't treated / sterilized as well.



As these were WC and from a suspect vendor, definitely have the fecals done and swab for Chytrid and Rana....it will save you from alot of problems with this frog and the other frogs.

Glad to hear that the frog is doing better now.

[MantidBro]

Using temps to cure chytrid isn't 100%
http://www.conservationevidence.com/actions/770


I haven't seen anyone stating that salt baths can cure chytrid (or that they are that safe for frogs)...I doubt that this amount of salt does anything to kill bacteria or fungus....higher amounts of salt in a bath willl actually dehydrate the frog as it won't be isotonic.

Pedialyte bath is a better choice in a pinch as it will help with dehydration.

More specific to frogs, Frog's N Things sells amphibian ringer's that is a good for rehydrating frogs....they also sell calcium gluconate that is good to replenish calcium and glucose. They sell a frog first aid kit that is good to have around for emergencies that has several items (including these) in it.
http://www.frogsnthings.com/storefro...og/health.html


As mentioned earlier, itraconazole baths or lamisil (terbinafine) baths are more accepted treatments for chytrid.
That being said, the only way to really tell if your heat treatment was successful is to test for chytrid afterwards.

Also remember that the frogs can get reinfected by items that weren't treated / sterilized as well.



As these were WC and from a suspect vendor, definitely have the fecals done and swab for Chytrid and Rana....it will save you from alot of problems with this frog and the other frogs.

Glad to hear that the frog is doing better now.

Oh really?

I don't think the frog is dehydrated at this point, I mist heavily and she's got a water bowl and all that good stuff. She very well may have previously though. I honestly think the salt, as well as the pedialyte, helped. She is doing much better. She's not as lazy, she is wide-eyed and alert, she no longer has that gross shedding, her throat is healing, and her poop looked normal the last time she did have a movement. She looks like a beautiful, healthy frog aside from the injury on her throat. I no longer do either baths, the salt or pedialyte, because she's been seeming well. It's been 3-4 days since her last salt/pedialyte bath.

I've been boiling everything every night.

I will get that done when I can, I'm honestly not entirely well off financially. It's not good of me, I know... I shouldn't even have pets if I can't do what's necessary. I just wasn't expecting to get a sick frog, so wasn't prepared I guess. From now on I'll keep some cash on the side in case something like this happens.

I'm glad too, it's great, I was seriously worried, it's a load off. Can't wait til the little one is finally eating!

[irThumper]

Thanks, I'm doing everything for HL I can, but I don't have good feelings about his condition at all He was acting all hyper and weird and not eating (now he's listless and not eating after the meds) for a while before we got Pole Bean and Butter Bean, so I know it's not related, but the temps are starting to moderate here so I'm going to be testing here pretty quick. Have you tested your girl yet? How's she doing?

Incidentally, who did you purchase her from? I want to add them to my "caveat emptor" list... O_o

[MantidBro]

Thanks, I'm doing everything for HL I can, but I don't have good feelings about his condition at all He was acting all hyper and weird and not eating (now he's listless and not eating after the meds) for a while before we got Pole Bean and Butter Bean, so I know it's not related, but the temps are starting to moderate here so I'm going to be testing here pretty quick. Have you tested your girl yet? How's she doing?

Incidentally, who did you purchase her from? I want to add them to my "caveat emptor" list... O_o

Aw im sorry, i really hope his condition will turn around for you and that he will be okay!! What are you going to test for? No i havent tested her yet, i need to save for it, but shes doing great. She finally ate last night!!

I got her from snakesatsunset

[MantidBro]

good news, the little one ate last night! I had two dusted crickets in her container. I kept nothing else in there except her water bowl. Then i woke up today and noticed one of the crickets is no where to be found! and theres no way it could have gotten out, what with the slippery sides of the container and with the lid being shut and a pillow case draped over it. She DOES look fatter today so id say she has to have eaten it! i think she can finally be named now. Im thinking her name should be LUCKY!

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Nice! Be careful about naming her lucky, my old male green anole friend might get jealous, XD

[MantidBro]

Lisa is right. The only way to be sure is to test. I posted --> sent the link a few days ago- see post #4
The swab is a very simple process... but you need to call have the swab sent to you.
If the frog is still il, I may I respectfully suggest you move quickly.

I believe Josh's Frogs sell the swabs as well.

I have never used a salt bath for a tree frog.

As mentioned... ask the breeder if they spot test their offspring for:
Chytrid Fungus (B. dendrobatidis)
more importantly ~ ranavirus

A fresh fecal sample can be sent for detection of parasites.
If present , parasites, can be treated w Panacur, of which you can purchase from Dr Frye or a near-by herp vet.

This may help:
http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-vet-finder/
http://www.repticzone.com/articles/v...tedStates.html

So once i buy a swab from joshs frogs and fill out the form who do i ship it to? Ive never done this before its kind of confusing to me.

[MantidBro]

The only way you will know if it is Chytrid for sure, in early stages, is if she is tested and comes up positive for B.d. The heat treatment for Chytrid is more involved than you think, so I would watch out going that route as frogs can dehydrate and die. The recommended treatment by our vet was an Itraconazole solution bath (it's by prescription), soak frog 5 minutes daily for 11 days, and do a complete breakdown/clean and bleach (1/2 cup regular bleach to 1 gallon of water) of EVERYTHING your frog comes in contact with every single day (use only non-porous, easily disinfected décor). Having to do this for all 7 of my frogs and each enclosure every day was exhausting but I got through it. This was just a preventative treatment too, as my original frogs never had any issues with this dreaded disease, and things seem same as usual for them 57 days after the last treatment. I planned on testing a few days after the final treatment to make doubly sure everyone was all clear, but our temps skyrocketed up into the upper 90's/100+ degrees, so I held off as I was worried the excessive heat would make the tests non-viable if the ice pack melted before reaching the lab. All the frogs seemed to handle treatment well except for Honey-Lime, my problem child. I think the medication adversely effected him, possibly exacerbating the gastric issues he's had from coccidiosis. He just doesn't want to eat, and when he does it seems to be painful or bother him somehow I think I'm going to have to wind up putting him on a prepared meal, like pacman food mixed with Reptaboost, something that is nutritious but easy to digest and without any hard bits like leg parts or heads.

I have no experience with using salt in the water, but I would beware of that until you get more info. I have, however, used 100% all natural organic coconut water (mixed with dechlor water) in place of Pedialyte with no apparent problems. If you suspect Chytrid then time is of the essence and you need to get her tested immediately, this can be a very fast acting disease, but conversely it can also hang on if the frog is getting other supportive therapy other than the anti-fungal treatment... at least this was my experience with my poor Pole Bean frog

Okay thank you. My original male red eyes have no issue with 80F, if anything it makes them more lively. The warmer it is, the more i hear frenchy chuckling at newbie. They are from costa rica so i think 80 is okay. The little one has a water bowl in her tank and is misted regularly as well, i keep it at 70% - 80% humidity and i also remove the heating pad every few hours.

I have been thoroughly cleaning everything every night, except for the water bowl which i clean two-three times a day.

Im sorry about sir honey lime! I hope he will be okay.

She is still not eating unfortunately. Last night i used an eye dripper to suck up some cricket guts and calcium/D3 powder and get it into her mouth. I feel that the supplement is important at this time.