African Dwarf Frog Death

[justin31love]

Hey guys,

So I purchased two ADFs two days ago, and I also purchased a 5.5 gallon tank with a filter. I have placed the two frogs in the tank with my betta, and the temperature of the water for the last two days has been 80-82 degrees, and I use a dechlorinating conditioner . One of the frogs was lighter and bigger than the other, and initially the lighter one was very active, while the darker one hid a lot. Also, I couldn't get them to eat the frog pellets I bought, up until the death. So, earlier today after work, I did a 50% water change (my tank is not cycled, but I plan to get a water kit tomorrow), and immediately after the water change, the lighter frog was lying upside down on the bottom of the tank, breathing frantically. About 15 minutes later, it was dead. In retrospect, I did notice that he hid way more than usual in the beginning of the day.
However, the other frog is still acting normal and I think I even saw him eating! He was moving his mouth and kind of clawing at his mouth at the same time. Im not sure if this is normal behavior? I am wondering if the frog could have been sick from the beginning, since it has a lighter color? I really want to get another one, but I really dont want to have another death. Any idea on what I should do to prevent this from happening again? Thanks!

[DanB]

I've been keeping ADFs in with my daughters betta for about a year. I had the exact same thing happen after a cleaning but I know that I accidentally nailed her with the gravel vacuum and that is what I attributed the death to.

If I were you I would check the ammonia level, nitrate, nitrite first, make sure the levels are good. Also give the remaining frog a good inspection. Check for odd looking marks, funky mouth, eyes etc... If all is well I would add 3 more as they do much better in groups.

I also highly suggest feeding redworms. The betta and frogs will both eat them and a little frozen pack will easily last a month.

[justin31love]

Thanks so much! I haven't ruled out the possibility that I could've also nailed him/her with the vacuum ( it was my first time using a gravel vacuum), because prior to the cleaning, they both seemed to be active and avoiding the vacuum tube when I initially put it in the tank. Also, unfortunately I am colorblind so I don't really trust my judgement of colorations but I will gladly upload some photos. Thanks so much! I think I will buy two more frogs and get red worms or bloodworms.

[DanB]

Bloodworms are actually what I meant to say.

I'm not really an expert here but I suspect the coloration has more to do with temperature and stress levels and it could indicate illness but I don't know what to look for other than the obvious.

I've been using gravel vacuums since the late 80s, literally thousands of times and that was the first time I've ever hurt anything. These little guys just aren't that fast, don't see well, and don't always get out ta the way.

[justin31love]

Here are some pictures of my remaining frog as well as the dead frog shortly after passing

[DanB]

I personally think their colors look good and see nothing I would worry about on the living one.

I'm sorry for your loss on the other. These little ones get overlooked a lot, they are really fun little frogs.

[justin31love]

Thanks! Yeah they are very interesting, I love watching them swim around, although this one is very shy and runs away from my harmless betta lol

[justin31love]

So, I went and bought Prime conditioner which detoxifies Ammonia, and I got my water tested, with good results (low amounts of ammonia and nitrates/nitrites). So i decided to get another frog to replace the deceased one. Also, I wanted to get a test kit, but with the color reading being very difficult to distinguish, since I am colorblind, but i was convinced to get an Ammonia only test, which i was told I can use to infer the amounts of nitrate/nitrite. Also I was told that monitoring the Ammonia levels is the most important factor to judge for water changes.
So, Do you think I can cycle my tank using the ammonia tests? If I just monitor the levels of ammonia constantly and do water changes accordingly, will the tank cycle on its own? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

p.s. I also purchased frozen bloodworms!

[DanB]

If the ammonia is 0 after about a month your tank can be considered cycled in my opinion. Nothing in your tank is super sensitive so as long as ammonia is near 0 you should be good.

You will like the bloodworms just make sure you do a weekly water change! 50% or so...

[justin31love]

thanks! So i tried putting some of the bloodworms on a little dishlike thing in the tank but i still havent seen them eat anything. Should I just leave the food there for them to maybe eventually find it?

[DanB]

The frog will find it eventually. They do most of their feeding by smell. Bettas don't generally eat off the bottom. I have 1 that will but it took awhile for him to learn to do so.

Keep in mind that a lone adf will be much less active and might only eat at night...

[justin31love]

sadly my betta died today :/ I suspect it was stress induced from the new tank, which due to the black filter attached to the side, caused him to constantly see his refection. But I now have two frogs in their tank. I may get another betta in a month or so, but I want my frogs to be well established first.

[justin31love]

But they seem to be doing fine, both exploring and stuff. Also two of the worms that I put out miraculously disappeared, and one of the frogs was near the dish, so I hope he ate. lol

[DanB]

I'm sorry to hear about your betta. For myself I think it would probably be best to do a frog only tank. I think the frogs and the betta would be happier. For a 5 gallon you could easily keep 4-5 frogs without a betta. My bettas that live alone seem to do much better.

[justin31love]

yeah I think you are right, I think I will get one more frog in a few weeks then, once these two have settled in. Thanks again!

[rodsboys]

The only "good" amounts of Ammonia and Nitrite are "0". Any reading above that is toxic. Prime will help detoxify the ammonia, but you will still need to keep up with maintenance during your cycle which will take 4-6 weeks usually.
Bloodworms are fed very often, but can and will lead to bloat in clawed and dwarf frogs. The best diet for them is a variety of small meaty foods and pellets(if you can get them to take them). Mysis shrimp, spirulina enriched brine shrimp, glass worms, etc.
Avoid freeze dried foods at all cost.

[justin31love]

Okay thanks. I also have frog and tadpole pellets, so I will alternate between the two.

[DanB]

The only "good" amounts of Ammonia and Nitrite are "0". Any reading above that is toxic. Prime will help detoxify the ammonia, but you will still need to keep up with maintenance during your cycle which will take 4-6 weeks usually.
Bloodworms are fed very often, but can and will lead to bloat in clawed and dwarf frogs. The best diet for them is a variety of small meaty foods and pellets(if you can get them to take them). Mysis shrimp, spirulina enriched brine shrimp, glass worms, etc.
Avoid freeze dried foods at all cost.

I have never heard bloodworms cause bloat in African Dwarf Frogs. All things being equal though it doesn't surprise me and adding variety is never a bad idea. I think I'm going to buy some frozen Mysis and Glass worms to add to the diet. I've only ever owned 4 of these guys and the deaths have come from physical trauma (1 caught in a filter and 1 with a cleaning accident).

[justin31love]

Just wondering, Do you feed your frogs inside your tank? Because whenever I try to put food in the tank my filter moves it all around and it goes to random places. Do you think they would eventually find the food when they are hungry? Today I fed them in a separate 1 gallon bowl while I was doing a water change, but should I continue to feed them like this everyday, or should I let them find it? Also how long does it take for food to go to waste in the water? thanks!

[DanB]

In my opinion it is best to feed in tank. Every time they get moved it causes stress. If your filter is sucking up all the food just turn it off for 30 minutes at feeding time.

If you want to be really careful you can suck the excess food out with a turkey baster after about an hour.