Sick Pacman Frog, what should I do?

[KerkeringJ]

Thanks for the response! He's been doing well, although he does look a little thin. And I think I might know the reason why! The last time he pooped, the whole thing was mostly a gray color, which is apparently indicative of liver/bile release malfunction. If his gallbladder isn't working properly, that would explain his thinness despite the fact that I've been feeding him. So uhh... any tips? Not sure if this is something I'll be able to fix unfortunately, but is this indicative of any bacterial/fungal/viral infection that you guys know of? Please let me know!

[DVirginiana]

Hm... I generally associate bacterial infections with runny poo, but you can't rule that out completely. Being on antibiotics can also mess with the digestive system, so that could be what you're seeing. Abnormal poo can also be a sign of parasites; do you know if he's ever been fed anything like feeder fish? Those are really bad to transmit parasites.

Can you post another picture from above so we can see just how thin he is? Also if the oddly colored poo happens again, snap a picture and put it up.

If the oddly colored poo continues to happen, it might be a good idea to get a fecal done (save the poo in a moist paper towel inside a ziploc bag and store it in the refrigerator for no more than two days if you can't get it to the vet immediately) just to make sure there's no parasite issue. Fecals are usually pretty inexpensive. My gut is saying that it's probably due to the antibiotic, but it's hard to say for sure especially without seeing the poo.

If he doesn't have trouble with impaction, you can feed him a pinkie mouse (no more than once a month) to try and put some weight back on him. They have a pretty high fat and protein content compared to worms and crickets. However, don't do this unless he's medically stable; acting pretty much normally and alert. The mice put a little more stress on the digestive system than invertebrates, so I wouldn't feed one to a frog that's seriously ill.

[KerkeringJ]

I really can't get a good picture. His skin is really tight (you can see the edges of his skull), you can see bumps on his back which kinda look like bone, and other areas have faint red dogs like you see when you get a really bad skin burn. His sores (ulcers?) on his belly haven't been healing either.

This is all chrytid, yeah? Slow onset, redding of belly, shedding of skin, formation of growths, watery abcesses, and lots of thinness. I think I'm gonna put him back on the chrytid mess. Obviously doing nothing isn't working, and the antibiotics didn't work before even though I basically completed them.

For what it's worth, his poo was runny a few weeks ago before it turned gray. Not liquidy, but not like super solid.

[DVirginiana]

What you decide to do is up to you, but I very highly doubt that your frog has chytrid. It can only survive and affect frogs in cool temperatures; the maximum survivable temps for chytrid are around 73 F. If you're keeping your pac temps in the appropriate range, there should be no way the chytrid fungus could survive in his enclosure for any extended period of time. It's also uncommon in species that are captive born and bred like the overwhelming majority of pacs are.

Reddening of the belly (which is not what you're seeing unless the frog's belly has changed drastically since the pictures you took; you look to be dealing with two sores that have only localized reddening around them, which is expected) is more commonly due to bacteria than chytrid. As for formation of watery growths and abcesses, where are those on your frog? Other than the two sores on the belly, you haven't mentioned any of those. The sore on his back doesn't look like it's related to any sort of infection; it's actually a very common spot for shed to get stuck and then pull a bit and cause a little sore. I've seen it several times on mine during the years. Excessive shedding can be caused by bacterial infections, stress, and certain medications. As far as weight loss goes, it's hard to gauge without a picture, but your frog has been eating. In a frog that's still eating, that points to a potential parasitic problem or could be a complication of the antibiotic. Weight loss in chytrid is largely due to the frogs not eating. The runny poo is most commonly associated with bacterial infections (can also be a parasitic problem), but in your case I think it may be related to the antibiotics.
Finally, the most important symptom of chytrid is neurological issues. This can manifest in the frog having difficulty moving, flipping over (that's not a natural defense mechanism in pacs like it is in some tree frogs), and curling toes (like, the toes will curl constantly and the frog can't straighten them out). Another big marker is excessive soaking, so unless your frog is basically living in his water dish he's not showing that. The stretched/dry skin in chytrid will still occur even when the frog soaks, as the skin actually can't take in water properly. If the majority of the frog looks normal, that shouldn't be what you're seeing. For pacs, the shoulders and head will often look a bit dry since that's the part they will keep out of the substrate most often, giving it more of a chance to dry out.

Basically, everything you're seeing points to bacterial infection and the general effects of illness and treatment, and he's not showing the hallmark soaking and neuro issues associated with chytrid. Chytrid has a big scare factor, and the symptoms mimic more common and likely problems, so many people assume chytrid when it's not the case. The treatment for chytrid is very stressful on the animal, and very long and drawn out. Something that could cause serious issues for an already sick frog.

Plus, in that belly shot, the sores don't seem to be a major problem, and their presence doesn't necessarily mean the antibiotics weren't working. I'd expect the actual wounds to take a bit longer to heal considering their location. Also, I don't know how often you've had to give animals antibiotics, but finishing the course is absolutely necessary, and you often won't see results till the very end; sometimes you even need a second course. Such is the nature of antibiotics unfortunately. What's more, sometimes the initial antibiotic won't correctly target the problem and they need to try another. If the vet didn't do a culture, that may very well be the problem.

I'll post a link to a page about chytrid; it's aimed at Australians, but includes some good info and a picture of an animal that actually has chytrid (looks nothing like what you're seeing). https://www.frogsafe.org.au/disease/..._chytrid.shtml
This is just advice, and you know your frog's condition better than i dobut my personal opinion is that you should trust your vet's diagnosis of a bacterial problem. You seem really dedicated to making sure your frog gets better, and I'd hate to see you accidentally make things worse by treating for a problem that isn't there and not treating the real issue.

Sorry for the super long post btw, but I wanted to cover everything.

[DVirginiana]

Also, if you're really concerned it may be chytrid, try posting in other areas of the forum where you're more likely to run into someone who's actually seen/treated it and link back to this thread. The tree frog forum is pretty active, and contains a lot of species that are commonly wild caught or come from areas where chytrid is a real issue. I'm no expert on chytrid and I think hearing from someone who has personal experience with it would be good for you.

[KerkeringJ]

Woah, this is all hugely helpful, thank you! So like if it gets above 79 at all for most of the time it can't be that?

He has a little water pouch on one side of his body that sort of emerges and disappears. It went away with nolvasan, but now it's back.

He also has a new sore now, on his back. It was caused just from the skin there disappearing.

[DVirginiana]

I'm not an expert on chytrid and have never seen/treated it personally, but from everything I've read it shouldn't be able to thrive above about 73. Since pacs shouldn't ever get below 75 it shouldn't be able to live in a pac enclosure. Given the temps and the fact that almost all pacs are captive born and bred, I just think bacterial infection is far more likely than chytrid.

So, with the water pouch are you talking about just like an area under the skin that looks like it's holding water, or something that's very wrong looking? If it comes and goes maybe just leave your camera beside the enclosure so you can snap a pic next time you see it. Pics are really helpful for evaluating stuff like this. Pacs can retain a lot of water at times just as a normal part of living. Without a pic I feel like that may be what you're seeing.

If the new sore on his back looks like the one in the picture you posted before, it'd be fine to put painkiller free neosporin on it.