Hello everyone :)

[Kirrie]

I'm relatively new to the world of frogs. I have kept aquatic frogs (African Dwarf frogs to be exact), in the past but I have no experience with frogs outside of that. I am here to learn and get some ideas for a 55g tank that will be used for frogs! While I have very little experience with frogs, I do have a lot of experience with keeping animals that require special care, such as controlled climates. I have 5 aquariums, with a variety of tropical fish and snails, and a 40g with a second level dedicated to my hermit crabs. I'm sure frog keeping will prove to be another fun and exciting experience for me

One of my coworkers has an old 55g tank that she would like to keep frogs in, so she has asked me and another coworker to get everything set up (the other coworker keeps many different reptiles). I work in a small family owned vet hospital, so we are planning to keep this tank in our waiting room for everyone to enjoy.

Basically, I am looking for suggestions on what could thrive in this tank, and what resources I can use to figure out how to provide the frogs with optimal care. Any suggestions would be appreciated

[Sunshine]

Hello Kirrie and welcome to the forum! With a tank that size the possibilities are almost endless I would choose a diurnal species (Dart Frogs, Firebelly Toads, Bullfrogs) if it is going to be a display tank. I would also recommend a naturalistic setup. There is a Deranged Chipmunk around here somewhere that could help with setup and plants

[LilyPad]

Welcome to the forum, Kirrie. I would do a planted set up with some sort of bolder dart frog also! Your patients' families would really enjoy seeing them

[deranged chipmunk]

Welcome to the forum. For a display tank in a public area, I would definitely go with darts. Preferably, a species that is active, bold, colorful and does well in groups. Dendrobates Leucomelas are wonderful in groups, very active and personable. They will use every inch of tank you offer them. Any of the Phyllobates species will work well also. They are more of a terrestrial frog though and won't use much height of the tank. However, the larger ones, such as P. Terribilis 'mint' will spend the day out in the open, just staring you down lol. You can also get terribilis in yellow, orange, and black footed. P. Bicolor are another bold choice, with mottled coloring.

A 55g tank in a challenge, but very doable. They don't offer much depth, which makes hardscaping a challenge, but with some creativity, they come out very well.

A lot of your decision should also be based on the feeders, and what you are comfortable handling. Tree frogs, fire belly toads and the like will feed on crickets as a staple, darts will feed on flightless fruit flies that you would need to culture.

Plants, I could go on all day about plants. They can be as exotic as miniature orchids, to common, like you would find at your local home improvement store/ department store.


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[Kirrie]

I'm sure we will be able to feed them whatever they need. I'm not a big fan of bugs, but if it's something I can't handle, I'm sure my reptile keeping coworker can.

I am so glad to hear that you can help out with live plants! All of my aquariums are planted, but I have trouble keeping my hermit crab tank planted because they trample and or eat just about everything haha.

Assuming we go with a species of dart frogs, where would we find them? We only have a Petco and a PetSmart nearby, which don't carry them and they probably wouldn't be healthy there anyway.

What are some of their basic requirements (substrate, heating, humidity, lighting, water, diet, etc.)?

Edit: On an unrelated note, how do I change my profile picture? I have been trying to change it to a jpeg picture from my desktop. I have made sure that it is small enough, but it keeps saying "Invalid File" when I try to change it.

[deranged chipmunk]

Hermit crabs are a tough tank to plant. Very few species can take the abuse they dish out. It's like building a planted tank for goldfish. You're not planting the tank so much as providing food lol

As far as where to get darts, opinions vary. Some people will recommend some of the online retailers, such as Josh's frogs, or some others, but I, personally think you can do no better than a reputable, private breeder and have them shipped. It will cost a few bucks to have them shipped over night (about $40 on average), but it is well worth it to get healthy specimens. Not to mention a private breeder can give you whatever information your heart desires. The day they came out of the water, who the original breeder was (line), who the original importer was, and so on.

I saw you are in PA, where abouts? We have several excellent breeders on the right side of the state, NJ and NY.

Basic requirements are a well draining substrate (ABG mix is the gold standard), temps in the low to upper 70's (you don't want to go over 80), humidity of 80%+, lighting at 12/12, no need for a water dish or water feature for darts, they get their water from the humidity in the tank.

The main staple of a captive dart's diet would be flightless fruit flies. D. Melanogaster for the smaller ones and D. hydei for larger ones. For variety, they can also be fed small pinhead crickets, bean beetle larvae, and a few others. Your live vivarium should also have a clean up crew of microfauna (springtails and isopods), which the frogs will munch on as they see fit.

Those are the basics for darts. If you have any other questions, feel free to fire away


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[Kirrie]

I live in Williamsport, PA. So about 5 hours from Philadelphia.

So this is what we should use for substrate? http://www.joshsfrogs.com/abg-mix-4-quart-1-gallon.html, and just 1"-3" of it?

As for heating, would we just use an under the tank heating pad on the bottom of the tank? Or do you think they would be ok with just room temperature as long as it stays been 70-80?

I'm guessing by 12/12, you mean 12 hours of light a day? That shouldn't be a problem, I have spare timers we could use. Do they require any specific lighting, like UVB? Or does the bulb need to be a certain wattage?

They don't need a water source, but could we use something like this http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/waterfall.php in the tank, or would it be unsafe for the frogs? I'm only asking because I know my coworker is going to ask haha.

Where do most people get their flightless fruit flies? I think I've seen them kept in containers at PetSmart, but I'm not sure if that's a safe place to get them or not.

The microfauna should be no problem at all. I have springtail central in my hermit crab tank, and I didn't even have to buy them haha. As for the isopods I know quite a few hermit crab owners that breed and sell them.

This might be a silly question, but can different species of dart frogs be kept together, or are their species that come in different colors? I know my coworker would like to see different colors in the tank if possible.

[deranged chipmunk]

Williamsport, just hit up the next Hamburg reptile show, they are usually frog vendors there. Otherwise, I have a few folks around here that have plenty of species and they all ship.

That substrate is what you would use. I normally lay down a layer of about 4".
Room temp is perfect provided it is within that range. Remember the tank is a few degrees warmer than ambient temps, due to humidity. Correct, 12 hours on, 12 hours off, just like a planted tank and like a planted tank, lighting is the same. It's really only used for the plants, the frogs do not need any special lighting. As far as wattage goes, I have run everything from cfl's to led's. A lot depends on what plants you plan to keep and how fast you want them to grow.

You can definitely use that waterfall, just make sure the cord exit area is sealed off. Frogs are second only to snakes when it comes to being masters of escape.

Flightless fruit flies: there are tons of vendors. All have their own culture medias. It's just a matter of choosing one.

Mixing species is highly frowned upon. I won't go in depth into this one, because that poor dead horse has been beaten so many times, I'll leave it be. Let's just say that mixing species requires a huge tank, a LOT of experience, a lot or research and a lot of patience. A 55 just doesn't give the room each species would need to set up their own territories, allow sight line breaks, breeding areas, ect. It's just not a good idea for beginners to the hobby. You could be potentially throwing money away while losing frog after frog.

Here are a few local(ish) vendors you can check out:
Frog nerd: https://www.facebook.com/pages/FrogN...28846404031813

Genesis exotics:
Www.genesisexotics.com

Mike at frog nerd is a local philly guy and I can personally vouch for his supplies, cultures and frogs.

Genesis used to be local, but he since moved back home to Texas. Josh offers excellent frogs, supplies and service.


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[Kirrie]

That makes sense. Thanks for answering my questions!

So I guess the next step is to start collecting supplies and figure out how we are going to do live plants.

[deranged chipmunk]

Anytime. when gathering supplies, remember, I only gave basic guidelines. You'll also need a drainage layer material and separation barrier to go under the substrate as well as other things.

You can start new posts under the vivarium section and ask questions there if you get stuck. Same with plants. Set up a post and we can bounce ideas around on what plants will work for you


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[Kirrie]

Like a false bottom? I have one in my crab tank. I used pieces of PVC pipes as supports, then put egg crate (plastic grid used in lighting), over top with weed block to keep the substrate from falling through and then plastic crafting mesh to keep the crabs from digging through haha

So I would just need a false bottom and then the ABG substrate?

I'll probably start a separate thread later tonight for live plants.

[deranged chipmunk]

Exactly. Just make sure you provide good ventilation. The amount of water a false bottom holds can actually make it TOO humid in the tank, and then you risk developing a mold issue that even the microfauna cannot keep up with.

Btw, kudos to you for keeping your hermit crabs properly. Too many keep them in too dry conditions


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[Kirrie]

With my false bottom, I have another piece of pvc pipe that runs from the bottom of the tank to a few inches above the substrate level so I can put a tube down to the bottom and syphon out any excess water. Would that work for ventilation?

My hermit crabs are spoiled like you wouldn't believe haha. They basically live in a crab castle. I'm an admin in a crab group, so they are very well taken care of. I have to set a good example :P

Do you keep crabs too?

[deranged chipmunk]

The tube will work just as it does for your hermit crabs, to siphon out the excess water. Ventilation will need to be built into the lid of the tank.

My hermit crab keeping experience is limited to when my daughter was much younger and she had them.


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