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Thread: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

  1. #1

    Unhappy Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Hi there

    I am after some help and advice please.

    I had two Whites Tree Frogs, but unfortunately at the weekend one of them passed away suddenly and I’m not sure why L

    They were both looking healthy and eating fine, but then the next night one of them was sprawled out on the bottom and had died.

    Now my other frog is looking very poorly. He has lost vast amounts of weight and constantly sits on the bottom of the viv and never climbs and is constantly really dark colour.. He is also not eating and has his eyes closed pretty all the time.

    I gave him a warm bath and he became mobile but as soon as back in the viv he goes back to the same as above.

    I had them both for 1 year with no trouble, water is changed daily, fed adequately and cleaned out monthly. Temperature is just above 80 during day, about 75-78 at night.

    Any ideas what might be cuasing this, and any solutions how to treat this?

    Thanks!

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  4. #2
    100+ Post Member Cliygh and Mia 2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    What are you feeding? And do you dust their food?

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  6. #3

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Hi

    I feed crickets and wax worms, I have never dusted any of them - is that an issue? i didnt know I had to?

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    100+ Post Member Cliygh and Mia 2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Well just like humans, not only can we get fat from eating food, (Which is why I don't typically use wax-worms as a staple. they are too fatty) we and frog also need calcium and vitamins and minerals, if you haven't been dusting their food, I would start doing so now!

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  10. #5

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    ok thanks, what is the best brand to use (UK based), and how do I actually do it?

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    100+ Post Member Cliygh and Mia 2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    I don't know what brands are in the UK, as I am not in the UK, but if there are not any in your nearest petstore in the reptile section, you can order some, and how you do it, if you bag the crickets, you simply dust them before putting them in

  13. #7
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Have you had them tested for parasites? Is he still eating?


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    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    The "never climbing" thing makes me think it's a bad calcium deficiency. If at all possible I'd see a herp vet.

    Here's a list of questions that might help people figure out what to tell you.
    QUESTIONS

    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
    2----please include a photo of the frog
    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
    5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
    8----what is the typical humidity level
    9----what temperature is maintained
    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    13---what kind of water is used
    -----for misting
    -----for the frog's soaking dish
    -----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
    15---enclosure set up:
    -----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
    -----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
    -----describe wood, bark , and background materials
    16---when is the last time the frog ate
    17---have you found poop lately
    18---how often is the frog fed
    19---what size feeder is given
    20---what other feeders are used as treats
    21---what is the frog's main food source
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often
    24---calcium - what brand and how often
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
    26---approximate age of the frog
    27---how long have you owned the frog
    28---who cared for the frog before you
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
    -----for how long
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
    -----for what
    -----name of medication
    -----for how long
    -----what dose
    -----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

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  17. #9
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Find a powder with Calcium and vitamin d. Or else one with those plus a multivitamin. Put a little of it into a jar with a lid, put the bug in and shake it. There, powdered bug. The powder will come off pretty quickly so you might have to powder it again if the bug's not taken soon.

    If the frog's not climbing because of lack of calcium then the deficiency's progressed pretty far so powdering alone might not solve everything. Plus the real problem might not be a deficiency but a parasite or something. So that's why I recommended the vet.

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  19. #10

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Hi

    I have answered the questions below as requested.

    I have since dusted crickets and waxworms. He ate 2 worms about 3 days ago but nothing since then. No crickets have been touched by him.

    I have given him warm baths and tried to feed with tongs but no interest at all. He did however 2 nights ago climb up the side of the tank and even jumped a little. But now just sitting on the floor very dark and sooooo skinny.

    Almost looks as though he is sucking his belly in at the sides he;s that skinnY!



    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
    Whites Tree Frog

    2----please include a photo of the frog
    I have a jpeg file but it says 'not valid image file' when I try to upload as attachment

    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
    As above

    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
    Not sure exactly but it is standard for this set up, acquired from very reputable private outlet, not a chain.

    5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
    There was 1 other WTF, who was usually much fatter but lost weight very quickly and passed away suddenly

    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
    As above

    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
    No

    8----what is the typical humidity level
    50-60

    9----what temperature is maintained
    80-85 during day
    75-80 during night

    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    Heat pad on outside side of enclosure

    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
    Not sure on specifics but UV lamp above the enclosure, 8 hours on.

    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    Water changed daily when possible, if not then every other day. Full clean out monthly.

    13---what kind of water is used
    -----for misting -
    untreated tap water
    -----for the frog's soaking dish -
    untreated tap water
    -----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
    untreated tap water

    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
    Bark

    15---enclosure set up:
    -----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned - Hot water, no soap
    -----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric - Fabric plants
    -----describe wood, bark , and background materials - Log and bark used in enclosure


    16---when is the last time the frog ate
    Approx 3 days ago.

    17---have you found poop lately
    Not in last 3 days

    18---how often is the frog fed
    Crickets placed in tank every other day unless there is lots still running around

    19---what size feeder is given
    Medium crickets

    20---what other feeders are used as treats
    Wax worms

    21---what is the frog's main food source
    Crickets

    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
    Roam Free

    23---vitamins - what brand and how often
    None
    24---calcium - what brand and how often
    None

    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
    Never dusted

    26---approximate age of the frog
    18 months

    27---how long have you owned the frog
    1 year

    28---who cared for the frog before you
    Reputable reptile shop

    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    Captive

    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
    Once a week approx, wash hands with warm water before no soap. No gloves

    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    Very low

    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
    -----for how long
    N/A


    32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
    -----for what
    -----name of medication
    -----for how long
    -----what dose
    -----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

    N/A



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  21. #11
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    The image uploader is not working but if you have a photobucket, flickr, instagram etc. account you can upload from there. That is what I have been doing. A picture would be very helpful.
    I am not an expert so someone correct me if I am wrong but here are a few things I noticed:

    Lighting- I would increase lighting to 12+ hours per day

    Water- If you are going to use tap water it should be treated with a water conditioner (Prime, Reptisafe, API Stress Coat, Tetra Aquasafe etc.)

    Substrate- I would get rid of the bark and put moist paper towels down for now so you will be able to see the poo. The bark poses an impaction risk if he were to accidentally ingest a piece. When he gets better you can switch to a coco fiber substrate. (Eco Earth, Plantation Soil etc.)

    You say you are dusting his food items now. May I ask what you are using?

    I hope this helps and if I forgot anything someone let me know.


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  23. #12

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Here is a photo of him;
    http://s35.photobucket.com/user/vict...G0842.jpg.html

    When you say use paper towels, how many should you use, and how wet should they be? does anyone have any photos of how this should be set up?

    I am not sure on the brand but we also have a leopard gecko that we used to dust, so its the same pot.

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  25. #13
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Here is a pic I found to show the paper towel as substrate. It should be enough to cover the bottom of the enclosure- maybe just two layers thick- as it will need to be changed when it gets soiled. I would wet the paper towels thoroughly and squeeze the excess water out.

    I found a dusting powder that is available in the UK. It's also the only one I found and I don't know if it is any good but I figure it is worth a try.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Komodo-Premi.../dp/B006314AE2 you may need to copy and post it into your browser, sorry.

    Also, the cricket in the picture seems a bit big for your frog. I would try a smaller size. A good rule to go by would be the feeder should not be bigger than the distance between the frog's eyes. Is there a place around there that sells butterworms? They are high in fat and calcium and frogs seem to love them. I would also get some unflavored pedialyte and let him soak in it to get some electrolytes and energy back. I think the ratio is 1 part pedialyte to 10 parts dechlorinated water. Try the soak and then see if he will eat for you.


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    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    If the humidity's good I wouldn't bother wetting the paper towel. Just mist the tank a little.

    And yeah, chlorine and stuff can make a frog sick. Treating the water is important. Also, distilled water shouldn't be used.

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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Dry paper toweling will tend to stick to the frogs and pull up. Plus it will get wet anyway when they exit the water dish, so might as well dampen it a bit to begin with. I use a squeezable condiment bottle to dampen paper towels. Try to find a clear one that is food grade and BPA free.
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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  31. #16

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    I have literally only cleaned out the tank recently so next time I will consider using paper towells.

    I cannot find a good UK alternative to pedialyte. The UK version is Dioralyte but is only available in blackcurrent flavoured dissolvable sachets so no good Any other suggestion what may work for this?

    He has not touched food for a couple of days again and still remains sitting on the floor constantly a very dark colour.

    On a more positive note, I picked him up last night to inspect his belly and check for redness etc, and he jumped really far from my hands back in the tank to near the top which must be a good sign!

    He did however struggle to hold on for some reason and after about 20 seconds fell from near the top luckily into the water bowl to break his fall. He seemed ok from the fall but concerned that he didn't have the strength maybe to cling on

  32. #17

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Quote Originally Posted by fusss View Post
    I have literally only cleaned out the tank recently so next time I will consider using paper towells.

    I cannot find a good UK alternative to pedialyte. The UK version is Dioralyte but is only available in blackcurrent flavoured dissolvable sachets so no good Any other suggestion what may work for this?

    He has not touched food for a couple of days again and still remains sitting on the floor constantly a very dark colour.

    On a more positive note, I picked him up last night to inspect his belly and check for redness etc, and he jumped really far from my hands back in the tank to near the top which must be a good sign!

    He did however struggle to hold on for some reason and after about 20 seconds fell from near the top luckily into the water bowl to break his fall. He seemed ok from the fall but concerned that he didn't have the strength maybe to cling on
    Hello,

    Dioralyte does come in unflavoured sachets as well, so could be used.

    Having said that, human salts are probably not ideal, and just as a general thing as well I would strongly recommend getting him to a vet. It sounds like your frog needs proper evaluation and possible investigations so that appropriate treatment can be given. That will give him the best chance.

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  34. #18
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    You can make your own pedialyte since you can't find any there. Here is an old post from another member, Wesley Brouwer:

    "Pedialyte is just a commercial thing, easy to make it you're own.

    It's just a mixture of Natriumchloride (salt) and glucose (sugar) in the right dose.

    This saline/glucose solution should be 0,9%.
    You can make this by getting 1 L of warm water and put in 9 grams of Natriumchloride (just table salt is fine, as long as it doesn't contain iodine wich will be written on it when it contains iodine)
    and 9 grams of glucose (or sugar if glucose isn't readily available).
    Mix it in good, and let it settle to reach room temperature.
    Put in you're frog for about 10-15 minutes.

    It will do the same thing, only at a fraction of the costs."

    I would make the homemade pedialyte as soon as possible and soak him.

    You might need to take him to the vet. I don't want to suggest force feeding if it is MBD. When was the last time he ate?


  35. #19

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Do you have electrolyte drinks in UK, like Gatorade? I've dropped 3 drops on the back of a frog in need and it helped. The clear kind, but it does have sugar, but honey soaks work for encouraging poops.
    Just a thought on first aid in last ditch.

    I've also used with success on my one beardie I rescued. Not ideal, but if no other choice and it looks bad for your frog, may try it.


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  36. #20

    Default Re: Whites Tree Frog - Looking very poorly

    Yeah we have those kind of things over here like Powerade etc.

    Looked in Tesco and asked in their pharmacy for unflavoured Dioralyte but they didn't have any. I will try Boots later on today.

    I think he ate last night though

    I left 4 waxworms in a dish for him, this morning found one in the water bowl and the other 3 gone!

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