any aquarists here? I need some help...

[Bolisnide]

I have a 10 gallon tank, about 2 years old.
I will admit that I got the tank with very little knowledge of the biological filter, and how to maintain it.
I will also admit that I didn't get very good advice at the lfs, so unfortunatley have lost a couple fish along the way....

Up until recently I had 5 glowlight tetras (down to 4):
Hemigrammus erythrozonus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3 zebra snails:
Neritina natalensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 albino pleco (about 4 inches long):
Albino Plecostomus colorful tropical fish pictures

1 japanese algae eating shrimp:
Petshrimp.com -- All about shrimp

3 Amazon Sword tail plants:
Aquatic Plants for Freshwater Aquariums: Amazon Sword Aquarium Plant

I realize I'm overstocked (now), and never realized how large the pleco would get ! He was a little one of about 1.5 inches when I got him...

So here comes my question:
One of the glowlight tetras died last week, I replace it with another which died one day later. I haven't replaced it yet, do I need to? The local lfs said I need 5 tetras for them to feel safe and secure.
I tested my water:
Zero Ammonia, Zero Nitrites, and 40 ppm of Nitrate. I have done 25% water changes every day and still can't get my nitrates down.
PH is 8....

My other question:
My plants are dying! did really well for a couple years, but are now suddenly dying off... Any connection? I recently started adding CO2 to the tank (per the advice of lfs), should I fertilize as well?

I'm stuck on what I should do to proceed...
Any help or advice, etc. is very much welcome!

Oh, and here's a photo of the tank:


Here's a picture of the plants:


Also should add, I have an aqua clear filter, 10-20. And a bubbler
(as you can see in the pics)

Thanks guys!

[Bolisnide]

Ah, shoot. Can't figure out how to get that pic of my quarantine tank for baby white's off! Sorry (I'm computer dis-abled).


EDIT: Ok, nevermind. After a little tinkering, I figured it out

[deranged chipmunk]

i'll get to you on this after work Bol, i need a real keyboard in front of me. too much info to type on my phone. especially since the boss is glaring at me whilst i type this......lol

[Bolisnide]

i'll get to you on this after work Bol, i need a real keyboard in front of me. too much info to type on my phone. especially since the boss is glaring at me whilst i type this......lol

Thanks, bill!
No rush. Please don't risk your job for my itty bitty tank

[deranged chipmunk]

oh please, he can glare all he wants. he could never do what i do....lol

[deranged chipmunk]

I have a 10 gallon tank, about 2 years old.
I will admit that I got the tank with very little knowledge of the biological filter, and how to maintain it.
I will also admit that I didn't get very good advice at the lfs, so unfortunatley have lost a couple fish along the way....

Up until recently I had 5 glowlight tetras (down to 4):
Hemigrammus erythrozonus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3 zebra snails:
Neritina natalensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 albino pleco (about 4 inches long):
Albino Plecostomus colorful tropical fish pictures

1 japanese algae eating shrimp:
Petshrimp.com -- All about shrimp

3 Amazon Sword tail plants:
Aquatic Plants for Freshwater Aquariums: Amazon Sword Aquarium Plant

I realize I'm overstocked (now), and never realized how large the pleco would get ! He was a little one of about 1.5 inches when I got him...

So here comes my question:
One of the glowlight tetras died last week, I replace it with another which died one day later. I haven't replaced it yet, do I need to? The local lfs said I need 5 tetras for them to feel safe and secure.
I tested my water:
Zero Ammonia, Zero Nitrites, and 40 ppm of Nitrate. I have done 25% water changes every day and still can't get my nitrates down.
PH is 8....

My other question:
My plants are dying! did really well for a couple years, but are now suddenly dying off... Any connection? I recently started adding CO2 to the tank (per the advice of lfs), should I fertilize as well?

I'm stuck on what I should do to proceed...
Any help or advice, etc. is very much welcome!

Oh, and here's a photo of the tank:


Here's a picture of the plants:


Also should add, I have an aqua clear filter, 10-20. And a bubbler
(as you can see in the pics)

Thanks guys!

ok, so, as far as the tetras go, they would feel more safe and secure that larger the school is. i always keeps schools of 6 or more. do they absolutely need to be in a school? no. plenty of people keep them in pairs and singly and those fish live a nice, happy, healthy life with no problems.

as far as the pleco goes, you can always re-home him and pic up a bristlenose pleco. they only grow to about 4' or so. or some otocinclus cats. they only grow to about 2". of course, you could also add a cory cat or two. all options for down the road, obviously.

as far as your nitrate issue, try rinsing out your media in some old tank water. or some dechlor water. that should get your nitrates down. not that they are really excessive for a planted tank.

now as far as the plants go. i need to ask a couple questions. do you fertilize the tank? how long have you had the airstone in there? what kind of co2 are you adding? and i hate to sound mean, but if those are the same plants that you have had for a year or so, they are just surviving, not thriving or doing ok. lol they should be HUGE. i have had amazon swords grow from 4 leaf plantlets to 2 foot tall 2 foot wide monsters within 2 months.....lol

[Bolisnide]

ok, so, as far as the tetras go, they would feel more safe and secure that larger the school is. i always keeps schools of 6 or more. do they absolutely need to be in a school? no. plenty of people keep them in pairs and singly and those fish live a nice, happy, healthy life with no problems.

as far as the pleco goes, you can always re-home him and pic up a bristlenose pleco. they only grow to about 4' or so. or some otocinclus cats. they only grow to about 2". of course, you could also add a cory cat or two. all options for down the road, obviously.

as far as your nitrate issue, try rinsing out your media in some old tank water. or some dechlor water. that should get your nitrates down. not that they are really excessive for a planted tank.

now as far as the plants go. i need to ask a couple questions. do you fertilize the tank? how long have you had the airstone in there? what kind of co2 are you adding? and i hate to sound mean, but if those are the same plants that you have had for a year or so, they are just surviving, not thriving or doing ok. lol they should be HUGE. i have had amazon swords grow from 4 leaf plantlets to 2 foot tall 2 foot wide monsters within 2 months.....lol

Ugh, you're so mean!
I do not fertilize the tank, would any of the plant fertilizers at the lfs suffice, or do reccomend a specific brand?
The airstone is about 4 months new.
The Co2 I bought and have been using for only about a week is API Co2 booster. I follow the directions, 1 ml per day per 10 gallons.
I feel so bad for those plants, yes, they are 2 years old! They were huge, but as the leaves have started dissentigrating, I've been pruning them off... now they're just these pathetic little things.
One thing that someone jsut mentioned, I also have never replaced my bulb, maybe that is part of the equation?

Who would take my pleco? I have no friends with tanks, and I kind of like him. I read he will max out at 4 inches. I believe he is an albino bristle nose? I could be wrong.

Thanks bill!

[deranged chipmunk]

Ugh, you're so mean!
I do not fertilize the tank, would any of the plant fertilizers at the lfs suffice, or do reccomend a specific brand?
The airstone is about 4 months new.
The Co2 I bought and have been using for only about a week is API Co2 booster. I follow the directions, 1 ml per day per 10 gallons.
I feel so bad for those plants, yes, they are 2 years old! They were huge, but as the leaves have started dissentigrating, I've been pruning them off... now they're just these pathetic little things.
One thing that someone jsut mentioned, I also have never replaced my bulb, maybe that is part of the equation?


Who would take my pleco? I have no friends with tanks, and I kind of like him. I read he will max out at 4 inches. I believe he is an albino bristle nose? I could be wrong.

Thanks bill!

for swords, since they are heavy root feeders, i would use root tabs. either the seachem or api versions work well. if you have access to empty gel caps (doesn't everyone? LOL) you can fill them with osmocote (available at most big box stores), in essence, making your own root tabs.

the problem with adding carbon AND an airstone is that you are just pouring money into your tank. the o2 you are adding from the airstone is negating the co2 you're adding. my recommendation? put the air pump on a timer and put it on at night only. since the plants don't utilize co2 at night, it will supplement the tank with o2 for the fishies. the bulb could be part of the equation, but i doubt it. they most likely started melting due to the death of the 2 fish and lack of fertilization. swords are very sensitive to ammonia swings, even if only temporarily. i change the bulbs in my planted tanks annually, but i know people who change them when they burn out.

as far as the pleco goes, you're good to go darlin'. i was under the impression that you had a standard pleco. abn's are perfect for small tanks. they are great little fish. and i'll let ya in on a little planted tank secret: the more plants you have in a tank, the more leeway you have with stocking. the plants serve as a bio filter and allow for a bit of overstocking. so your current stocking level is ok with the swords you have in there.

[Bolisnide]

for swords, since they are heavy root feeders, i would use root tabs. either the seachem or api versions work well. if you have access to empty gel caps (doesn't everyone? LOL) you can fill them with osmocote (available at most big box stores), in essence, making your own root tabs.

the problem with adding carbon AND an airstone is that you are just pouring money into your tank. the o2 you are adding from the airstone is negating the co2 you're adding. my recommendation? put the air pump on a timer and put it on at night only. since the plants don't utilize co2 at night, it will supplement the tank with o2 for the fishies. the bulb could be part of the equation, but i doubt it. they most likely started melting due to the death of the 2 fish and lack of fertilization. swords are very sensitive to ammonia swings, even if only temporarily. i change the bulbs in my planted tanks annually, but i know people who change them when they burn out.

as far as the pleco goes, you're good to go darlin'. i was under the impression that you had a standard pleco. abn's are perfect for small tanks. they are great little fish. and i'll let ya in on a little planted tank secret: the more plants you have in a tank, the more leeway you have with stocking. the plants serve as a bio filter and allow for a bit of overstocking. so your current stocking level is ok with the swords you have in there.

Ahh, I've just learned so much!!!!
Thank you so much for your time, bill!
I like the timer idea for the bubbler, so if I understand correctly, put the bubbler on at night so the fish get the o2, and turn it off at during the day so the plants get the co2?
I'll get some fertilizer, and no, I don't have access to empty gel caps? Maybe the vitamin store... but I think I'll just buy the root tbs you suggest, I'm not that handy!

I'll let you know how this progresses, thanks again!

[deranged chipmunk]

that is correct. co2-day 02-night. and you are very welcome oh, and don't forget to trim off those melted leaves

[Bolisnide]

Are Carlos and bill still around? Long time since I've been on the forum, hope you're well!
My tank was doing well with all of your help until this past Friday..
Over the past two years I lost my algae eating shrimp, and a couple of snails. Other than that my tank flourished. Plants all looking beautiful, fish doing great.
Friday my son talked me into getting two mystery white (albino?) snails, and boom this morning every single glo light tetra dead. I know they were at the end of their life cycle, but all of them?
I checked water chemistry, and all seamed typical- 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 80 nitrate, ph at 8 (which it always had been).
So I did a water change any way and doses with melafix.
No I have heavy cloudiness going on.
Albino pleco seems fine.
WTF is up? Should I do another water change?
I currently only have one zebra snail, 2 mystery white snails, and my little pleco....
I can post a pic tomorrow if you think it would help diagnose...
TIA!


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[Crispy42]

With the high nitrates, cloudiness, and the recent addition of the snails, it sounds like your tank is going through a mini nitrogen cycle. The addition of the snails (mystery snails are HUGE waste factories and are really too much for a 10 gallon to handle long-term) added too much poop and resulting ammonia for your established beneficial bacteria to handle. If your tetras were old or weakened at all they could easily have died because of this ammonia spike. The bacteria eventually would have converted it to nitrates, but cloudiness in the tank (unless it's green algae clouds) is a classic sign of the nitrogen cycle.

Its always possible that that the snails had brought home an illness from the pet store if they weren't quarantined first, but it is extremely unlikely that your fish would all die so quickly without showing symptoms first.

How often do you perform water changes? What percent of the water do you change each time? Did you also change the filter cartridge at the same time?

For now you will need to do daily partial water changes (up to 50% at a time, but no more or you risk killing beneficial bacteria) to keep ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels safe. Also, I hate to tell you but really neither the snails nor the Pleco are suitable for a ten gallon tank. I wouldn't add any new fish while your tank is cycling. Wait until it is stable before adding any new fish.

[Bolisnide]

Yes, thank you.
I'll try and answer all your questions (I'm on my phone so please excuse me)..
So I was previously doing water changes once per month, and changing out only about 30% of the water.
Usually my nitrates are at about 40 ppm.
The snails are tiny, they could have caused that much damage to my water chem in 2 days? Wow.
I did not quarantine :/
Tetras were about 4 years old, so yes oldish I suppose.
No green algae, looks like a white cloud in the tank..
Currently I have the bristle nose pleco, it's full grown albino, 4 inches long. And the 1 old zebra snail and the two new white snails purchased Friday.
I was told, the pleco isn't ideal for a 10 gallon, but he's survived several years now, and I don't know what to do with him otherwise- a bigger tank not an option due to space issues.
So it's not bacterial, it's a messed up nitrogen cycle?
I will do daily water changes, what else should I do?
And do you think there's any hope for adding any fish ever?
Thanks for you're help


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[Crispy42]

You can definitely add more fish eventually! Sorry, I didn't mean to make you think you could never have fish again! You just need to wait until your tank finishes this mini cycle and is a better environment for them. Here is an article that explains the nitrogen cycle if you aren't familiar: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/bi...rogencycle.htm

Snails produce a shocking amount of waste for their size. In a small tank like yours, it certainly could have been the tipping point since the waste doesn't have 50 gallons of water to dilute it. Ideally I would recommend returning at least one of the snails if possible to reduce the bioload (aka amount of poop) in your tank. I'd also recommend, once your tank is done cycling, to start doing weekly 25% water changes instead of monthly. 40 ppm nitrates is a bit high. I would recommend testing your tap water directly out of the faucet to see if it already has that nitrate level present. If not, then it is probably a symptom of the infrequent water changes, so weekly partial water changes will help lower nitrate levels and the stress on your fish.

[Bolisnide]

No no, don't be sorry.
It's late here...
So funny how folks at the fish store told me 40 ppm was acceptable, and not to do weekly water changes because water changes stress the fish :/
I'll try and return a snail, check my tap nitrates (never done that!), and do as you've advised. I really appreciate all who've helped me with such a relatively unexciting aquarium, thank you!
By the way, I also rinsed my filter out (oops?) this last water change.
Thanks again!


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[deranged chipmunk]

By the way, I also rinsed my filter out (oops?) this last water change.
Thanks again!


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There's your huckleberry. Did you use tank water or tap water? If you used tap, you probably killed off all the bacterial in the cartridge, essentially rebooting the nitrogen cycle.

I agree, that snails are huge waste machines, but 2 mystery snails causing that much death in 2 days? That's a bit unlikely. I've added more snails into smaller tanks and never had any issues. But then again, anything is possible.




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[Bolisnide]

Hey Bill!
I rinsed the filter in well water, from my tap - no chlorine in my water, but definitely heavy metals (I do use API tap conditioner with my water changes though).
I rinsed the filter after the fish died, but didn't experience the cloudy water until after I rinsed the filter, so perhaps the fish death and this now messed up biological filter are unrelated issues?
Also, those little snails managed to eat a lot of my plants over the course of the weekend, little brats, so now I am left with sword plants that are now half devoured too.
I did a 25% water change this morning, still have cloudy water.... Checked the water chemistry, and now my nitrates are somewhere between 40 ppm and 80 ppm (I use those little strips, so couldn't quite tell if the nitrates have lowered much).
My nitrites are still at zero, but my ammonia is looking like a 5? Ugh, so annoyed with myself.
I also added some of the aquarium bacteria stuff, I usually add it when I do a water change anyway...
ho hum.

[deranged chipmunk]

Wow. Sounds like maybe there are multiple things at play here.

I would venture a guess to say that the death of the tetras created an ammonia spike, and that is what is killing plants. Sword are hardy plants, but sensitive to drastic swings in water chemistry. Mystery snails are a small species of Apple snail, and may occasionally graze on plants, but they normally do not destroy plants that fast. Or, at least, I have never had them tear up a tank fast. In fact, I personally have never had them eat plants.

Weekly water changes will not overly stress out the fish. It's normal procedure for those of us who dose fertilizers using the EI method. Heck, i used to do 2 50% changes on my shrimp tanks back in the day.

Unfortunately, there's no way to know now why the tetras died. It may just have been coincidence. Did you see all the tetras when you added the snails? Possibly one died, unnoticed, causing an ammonia spike which finished off the rest of the tetras?

Oh, and get a real test kit, those strips are garbage lol



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[Bolisnide]

hmmm, ok ok.. makes sense. Now that you mention it, I don't remember if I saw all the tetras when I added the snails - very good theory.
I'll get a good test kit, and I'll continue with daily water changes until the water chemistry looks good.
Hopefully my pleco won't die through all of this havoc I created in his little world
The plants do look pitiful, assumed it was the snails, but I haven't seen them eat them... so yes it could be the messed up water.
Thanks everyone!! I'll keep you posted.

EDIT: BTW, what should my nitrates be at?
I know the nitrite and ammonia should always be zero.
And my PH is high, and the general hardness is also very high.

[Bolisnide]

And I forgot to mention, checked my well water with the strips - Nitrate at 10 ppm.
IS that bad?