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Thread: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

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    Default Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    Iíve read and read about sick grey tree frogs all over the internet and while some have similar issues, none match what we are facing. Please help if you can...I live in rural Iowa and do not have a vet nearby that can treat a frog.

    Our grey tree frog is a female named Jelly. She has been with us since last July (about ten months). She is in a 20 gal tank with no substrate (she didnít like the coco bark substrate). She has a green tank liner for a floor covering. She has a large water dish, several tree sprigs for climbing, and a fake plant, as well as several varied rocks and shells. She has been so happy with us, and is very interactive. She will eat from my hand, tweezers, or hunt crickets herself. When tweezer fed, she ATTACKS the tweezers.

    Three days ago my daughters told me Jelly was doing something weird. I saw she was sitting on a branch and she kept opening her mouth rhythmically, like she was singing to a beat. I wouldnít say it was a yawn per se, but she continuously opened her mouth every two to three seconds.

    The next two days, she has kept herself hidden from sight under her fake plant. I feared she was dead and attempted to prod her with my finger to move/jump. She wouldnít. She allowed me to move her slightly, but she did not move under her own power. She also appeared more bloated than before, but nothing severe. Iíd seen her like this once before when she ate crickets that were too big. She passed them nearly whole, and then shrunk back to her normal size. Now, she has the same "big" appearance.

    I attempted to feed her two small crickets last night with tweezers. She did not have enough energy to attack the tweezers like normal, but did attempt to move toward it and eat it. I then stuck it directly in front of her mouth and she ate it. She was able to eat two last night.

    About fifteen minutes later, I observed her on a branch. This surprised me as I was under the impression she could not move under her own power. I then observed her doing the opening her mouth rhythmically again. This time however, her stomach was obviously seizing. She would bubble out on the right side, and suck in on her left side in what I can only describe as stomach seizures. Then she would alternate and puff out the opposite side and seize inward on the other. This continued for about ten minutes.

    She has been on the branch all night under a black light. I have read online about melafix soaks and mineral oil on her lips. However, no one who was given this advice mentioned anything about the open mouth and seizing.

    I doubt it could be an impaction as she doesnít have substrate. The only impaction possible would be crickets.

    Any ideas? Please help. Also, Iím told the directions for a melafix soak for mixing are on this site. I cannot find them. Please give me the mixing directions. I know to soak her twice a day in less than lukewarm water.

    Thanks.

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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    WWWhat you are describing sounds like shedding to me. They will suck in their stomach and puff it out while opening their mouth like a yawn. They open their mouth like that because they are swallowing the skin they are shedding.

    As for her activity level I can not say and I can't say for certain she is shedding that is just what it sounds like based off your descripton.

    Do you dust her food with Supplements?
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    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    I have a video of shedding but not sure where it is. If you look for "tree frog shedding" on youtube though, you should be able to find one to compare. That's what it sounds like to me. My other thoughts would be a calcium deficiency, but look up the shedding videos first.
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    I would probably not do the mineral oil. Also I second Lilypad's suggestion to look up shedding videos and see if the behavior matches.

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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! I googled, and this is EXACTLY what I witnessed. Now my question becomes: How often does this happen??

    Paul, I do not currently give calcium supplementation. I was told (and this may be erroneous) that if I feed the crickets the orange cube, that she will not need additional calcium. If this is incorrect, I'd like to change my ways.

    Also, I have another question and please don't laugh. If I have a female and there is no male around, and she doesn't hibernate, will she still produce eggs internally while "waiting" for the male to come along? Would I be able to see her increase in size with the production of 2000+ eggs internally? I've read they breakdown and are reabsorbed if not laid and fertilized. Just curious about the stages of her life/year cycle. Again, thanks for all your help. I took her to a vet over the weekend, and sadly I knew more than the vet did about frogs...which isn't saying much since I'd never heard of shedding.
    Last edited by jlara75; April 27th, 2015 at 04:23 PM. Reason: changed wording

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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    I believe they shed once a month, so if you know exactly what day he/she sheds, you can have a pretty accurate representation of when he sheds

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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    Quote Originally Posted by jlara75 View Post
    Thank you, thank you, thank you! I googled, and this is EXACTLY what I witnessed. Now my question becomes: How often does this happen??

    Paul, I do not currently give calcium supplementation. I was told (and this may be erroneous) that if I feed the crickets the orange cube, that she will not need additional calcium. If this is incorrect, I'd like to change my ways.

    Also, I have another question and please don't laugh. If I have a female and there is no male around, and she doesn't hibernate, will she still produce eggs internally while "waiting" for the male to come along? Would I be able to see her increase in size with the production of 2000+ eggs internally? I've read they breakdown and are reabsorbed if not laid and fertilized. Just curious about the stages of her life/year cycle. Again, thanks for all your help. I took her to a vet over the weekend, and sadly I knew more than the vet did about frogs...which isn't saying much since I'd never heard of shedding.
    I can't say I pay attention to how often my frogs shed, so I can't really help answer that one.

    The orange cube will not be enough. Get a powdered supplement like "rep-cal" and also a vitamin supplement. There is a good dusting schedule somewhere on the forum that I will look up for you in a second.

    The great thing about greys, if you don't put them through a hibernation cycle, they shouldn't become gravid (full of eggs.) So if you have a female, there should not be much concern there unless you pulled her from the wild after she already went through the season. If so, you may want to release her so that she can lay her eggs and produce lots of little baby greys. In a couple of months, you can scoop one of those up or even raise some tadpoles from a local pond.
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    I care for strictly dart frogs at the moment, but when I had Red Eye tree frogs I would dust the crickets at every feeding with a Calcium with D3 supplement (I used Rep-Cal). I also used a vitamin supplement on 1 feeding a week instead of the Calcium.

    How often they shed --- I never paid close enough attention to be able to answer. They will shed as often as they like I suppose lol. Nothing to worry about

    For my Darts I have a bit more involved supplementation schedule that is probably to over the top, but I like it lol.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    Oh, and I believe that they shed more when they are growing, so is it an adult or no?

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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    I've kept grays for years, currently have a female eastern, male and female cope's. I know it's old news, but I'm nocturnal like a lot of frogs, their terrarium is right beside my desk, so they keep me company, and entertained. When they have eaten regularly and well, I've seen them shed only days apart. The adult female, every week or two. They breathe, drink and thermo-regulate through their skin, so I imagine they shed to keep it fresh, permeable, repair scratches etc, as much as they do because they are growing. But this is just my observations.

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    Default Re: Grey tree frog seizing? Mouth opens...help please

    Amy (Lilypad), I did get her from the wild. I know this is not recommended. She was never intended to stay our pet, but she was so wonderful from the get-go that my girls (toddlers) fell in love with her and she stayed all winter. It was around July that I brought her home, and she was smaller than she is now. I believe she was probably at least a year old, as I cannot imagine she would have reached that size in her first year. She has grown during the year (nearly) that we have had her.

    My girls are toddlers and I love their enthusiasm for caring for their frog. I could not take that from them this year to release her. Secretly I'm hoping they continue with this passion and become herpetologists or something along those lines. But...it's too early for them to determine what lies ahead of them.

    My oldest (5 yrs) brought home two cricket frogs in April. We have house them in another tank, separate from the grey. One of them is definitely male and calls every morning and evening. I'm wondering if the other is female. I've tried talking her into letting them go immediately, but for now she's settled on observing them for a few weeks. She feeds them diligently and gives fresh water. I'm wondering if we won't see eggs out of this pair.

    Please don't be harsh on me for encouraging this, even though I know leaving our grey in the wild (and the cricket frogs) is what's best. I love that my girls care so much about frogs. They truly are their favorite creatures. I believe they have learned an enormous amount of responsibility in caring for the grey through the winter. This is ultimately a gift in itself.

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