WTF substrate help!

[Frogger00]

I have had some difficulties finding a substrate for my two boys. I've tried Eco earth, but it is just such a sticky mess. I've tried coco husk, but same deal. I don't like the idea of large river stones, because knowing my two they will get squashed underneath the stones. I like a natural earthy look, but something a bit more manageable?! I have pondered over cypress mulch quite a bit, I use it for my snake. It's really nice and easy, soft too. The pieces are quite large so I don't think the frogs would eat them, any thoughts?


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[Snappi13]

I find that repti carpet works well for me and you can scatter some natural leaf litter for a more naturalistic look and feel to the tank. That's how i typically keep my tank. I had the same dilemma as you for my two female whites. I'm not sure cypress is ideal for the frogs though. Sometimes those substrates have dyes and dust with them that could maybe be harmful to the frog. I use aspen snake bedding from zoo med for my corn snake and he loves it because he can make his tunnels.


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[Frogger00]

I find that repti carpet works well for me and you can scatter some natural leaf litter for a more naturalistic look and feel to the tank. That's how i typically keep my tank. I had the same dilemma as you for my two female whites. I'm not sure cypress is ideal for the frogs though. Sometimes those substrates have dyes and dust with them that could maybe be harmful to the frog. I use aspen snake bedding from zoo med for my corn snake and he loves it because he can make his tunnels.


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Well, the bag says the cypress mulch is completely natural. I use it for my ball python, it works well for him, doesn't smell, it's soft, pretty, and holds moisture. I don't see how it would be much different than the coco husk, other than being less of a mess! I can't find leaf litter anywhere! And when I do find it, it's about 10$ for 5 leaves...


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[whittyfrog42]

I don't use anything but cypress bark and moss with mine and they love it just have to make sure everything gets a good soak before going in the tank. I soak the cypress bark in as hot of water as I can get from the tap with reptisafe and let it sit till its cool then cover everything with moss.

[Frogger00]

I don't use anything but cypress bark and moss with mine and they love it just have to make sure everything gets a good soak before going in the tank. I soak the cypress bark in as hot of water as I can get from the tap with reptisafe and let it sit till its cool then cover everything with moss.

Wait-I can use moss?! I think I will try the cypress mulch, I really like it for my ball python it's my favorite substrate by far, and petsmart sells it cheap seriously though, one time I posted a picture of my tank and I had some moss in there and holy cow! The comments! I'm telling you man, people were freaking out, so I removed the moss. It's a shame though, as I really like the mossy look. Maybe I will start a new thread about moss...


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[trkent]

I'm super glad you posted a thread about this. I've been having the same feelings/problem. I use coco sub and I hate it. I'd like to also have something more natural looking. I've been thinking about some brown paper towel with various rocks and maybe some bark. I like the idea of a reptile pad though. Still so new to all of this! I guess it's an experimental process!

[LilyPad]

trkent, I would recommend putting leaf litter down or live sheet moss on top of the coco fiber, NOT sphagnum moss or other loose type moss because it is an impaction risk no matter who thinks it is okay to use. I would NOT put the cypress mulch in unless it is 100% covered with another safe material. If you're going to cover it anyway, you might as well keep the coco fiber in. The risk of eating and impaction is just too high. There are also some cool other ideas, kueluck had a really awesome set up for her whites - http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...tml#post247764 - Post #3, there are instructions written below it for how she set it up. Elly is post #4 and shows how she uses her leaf litter and live moss. Do disregard post #2 on the thread that I linked though, as that is not a healthy set up for a whites.

I keep the floor of my tree frog vivs completely covered with leaf litter (if you can find a live oak tree in a pesticide free environment, you can collect your own, but it's not too expensive to buy in the states) and live sheet moss. That way there is nothing stuck to my frogs or the walls of my viv.

Using unprinted paper towel as substrate would work fine also. It does have to be changed every 1-2 days though so it can be high maintenance.

Frogger...I'm not sure why you bothered to ask for advice when you're going to do what you want anyway. Go ahead and risk your own frogs, but do not try to promote it for others.

[Snappi13]

Black jungle terrarium supply carries leaf litter for a reasonable price and I'm personally unsure about he cypress. Your frogs your rules Hopefully a mod will chime in with better advise than I can offer.


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[Snappi13]

Sorry I didn't finish reading the thread before I reposted. I will also reconsider my substrate aswell. But why is repti carpet bad?


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[LilyPad]

Repticarpet is fine so long as it's taken out and cleaned on occasion, which I'm sure you've done I meant post #2 on the thread that I linked, I will edit and clarify!

[Frogger00]

trkent, I would recommend putting leaf litter down or live sheet moss on top of the coco fiber, NOT sphagnum moss or other loose type moss because it is an impaction risk no matter who thinks it is okay to use. I would NOT put the cypress mulch in unless it is 100% covered with another safe material. If you're going to cover it anyway, you might as well keep the coco fiber in. The risk of eating and impaction is just too high. There are also some cool other ideas, kueluck had a really awesome set up for her whites - http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...tml#post247764 - Post #3, there are instructions written below it for how she set it up. Elly is post #4 and shows how she uses her leaf litter and live moss. Do disregard post #2 on the thread that I linked though, as that is not a healthy set up for a whites.

I keep the floor of my tree frog vivs completely covered with leaf litter (if you can find a live oak tree in a pesticide free environment, you can collect your own, but it's not too expensive to buy in the states) and live sheet moss. That way there is nothing stuck to my frogs or the walls of my viv.

Using unprinted paper towel as substrate would work fine also. It does have to be changed every 1-2 days though so it can be high maintenance.

Frogger...I'm not sure why you bothered to ask for advice when you're going to do what you want anyway. Go ahead and risk your own frogs, but do not try to promote it for others.

Why wouldn't you recommend the cypress? The pieces of wood are pretty big, I don't think the frogs will eat it.


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[Snappi13]

Got U and thank u my carpet is changed weekly along with a full tank cleaning. I use all fake plants.


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[LilyPad]

There are enough small pieces mixed in with it or pieces that come apart. It can be great reptile bedding if it is pure cypress, but just not safe for frogs. Even if it feels soft to you, pieces may still scratch the frog's incredibly sensitive skin. I used it in a background once. I siliconed it to the background and then sanded it down. Then I covered it with silicone to keep all the edges covered and soft and make sure there were no possible loose pieces. There were definitely some pieces mixed in there that a whites could accidentally scoop up.

I do think you'd like a set up like I linked in the thread. That way you can still add springtails to breed in the one layer and work as a cleaner crew so you don't have to pull the set up apart and clean it too often. They won't trail coco fiber around and no impaction hazards that way either. It's nice and low maintenance as well as safe.

The other thing you could do is a drainage layer and a planted set up. Your humidity would stay up at good levels, you almost never have to clean it, and your frog would probably love it.

[Frogger00]

All loose substrates have small chunks. The stuff is soft enough for a frogs skin. I definitely keep that in mind when choosing bedding!


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[irThumper]

Um, Frogger00... Ixnay on the rguingaye. If you don't know Pig Latin I'd be happy to explain in a PM...

[Frogger00]

Um, Frogger00... Ixnay on the rguingaye. If you don't know Pig Latin I'd be happy to explain in a PM...

Pm sent!


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[Crispy42]

I too would be very hesitant about the cypress mulch. It may feel soft to us but frogs are much more sensitive than we are (or snakes are). If you're looking for a low maintenance setup have you considered a planted viv with a drainage layer or false bottom? Also, Josh's Frogs sells leaf litter fairly cheaply and it's a very generous portion - they pack that gallon bag as full as it can get!

[elly]

In the vivariums section there's a post on wood in frog tanks. I've found articles that say hardwoods are fine, like Bald Cypress and oak, but cedar has too many oils and it might be harmful over a long period.

Sadly there are cons to every type of substrate. If you do a planted tank it will be more expensive (but require far, far less cleaning). A paper towel or reptile carpet will need frequent cleaning.

If you do end up using cypress chips which I don't suggest, then if at all possible I suggest getting some leaf litter to put on top of the chips (magnolia, live oak) and boiling it and drying it out to kill bugs. If you absolutely can't find it anywhere else I might be willing to mail a bag of magnolia and live oak.

[Crispy42]

In the vivariums section there's a post on wood in frog tanks. I've found articles that say hardwoods are fine, like Bald Cypress and oak, but cedar has too many oils and it might be harmful over a long period.

Sadly there are cons to every type of substrate. If you do a planted tank it will be more expensive (but require far, far less cleaning). A paper towel or reptile carpet will need frequent cleaning.

If you do end up using cypress chips which I don't suggest, then if at all possible I suggest getting some leaf litter to put on top of the chips (magnolia, live oak) and boiling it and drying it out to kill bugs. If you absolutely can't find it anywhere else I might be willing to mail a bag of magnolia and live oak.

Very good points, although I'm not sure that a planted tank is actually more expensive if you look at long term costs. Is it more expensive to set up? Sure. But once you have it set up there is very minimal cost to maintaining it. With tanks where you're changing substrate with each cleaning, you have to pay for new substrate for the rest of your frog's life. Meanwhile, a planted tank can go for years without needing more money invested (unless you have a brown thumb and need to replace plants). So I definitely agree that if someone needs a low-cost initial expense then a planted viv would be more expensive, but if you can afford the initial investment you can actually save money over the long term.

[Frogger00]

So I did end up using some cypress, but it still sticks to them, grr! I guess I'll go order some leaf litter and put it on top.


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