Hunger Strike (WTF)

[BrittsBugs]

So, the olive colored blue eyed WTF I added to the colony (90-Day Quarantine) 3/30/2015 has refused food (calcium dusted pinhead crickets). I'm worried because s/he is very tiny and was skinny looking to begin with. S/he is very active, and happily climbs up onto the walls and just sleeps/relaxes most all day, or in the provided game plants. I check every morning to make sure s/he is still alive. S/he has not used the bathroom yet. But loves to soak in his/her water dish.

I thought I'd even try offering food via forceps, but s/he turns his/her head down or completely turns away.

Previous care
Enclosure Size: 10gal tank
Feeding: Offered Crickets Every Morning
Water: Dechlorinated
Environment: High Traffic, Likely Highly Stressed, Loud

I know WTF's can be stubborn, and fast for 1-2 weeks but I adore this little guy. And would absolutely hate to see him/her starve him/her-self to death.

S/he is very young, a froglet that is at most maybe 6 months old, if that. 1 1/2 inch in length snout to booty.

(Picture Included of the little guy)




-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

[irThumper]

I'd get their tank into a quieter less stressful area asap. Have you done a honey soak with this little guy yet?

[BrittsBugs]

S/He's in a quiet area, in a basic set up now. (:

I just listed all previous care I observed before agreeing to adopt him/her. On the off chance the extreme change in surroundings is more stressful in such a young WTF. My newest addition in quarantine (adopted 4/2/2015) is doing wonderfully, eating like a pig, and croaking/calling up a storm everyday.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

[BrittsBugs]

I haven't done a honey soak yet. Figured I'd give her/him a week to poop, knowing how stubborn Whites can be.

I'm very optimistic that s/he will make it, because of how active the little cutie is at times.

When placed in a separate feeding container s/he brushed the pinhead crickets away from her/his face, on the off chance s/he would only eat inside their enclosure I left some crickets in with him/her overnight. Checked in the morning, none were missing. So, I placed them back with the rest of the pinheads.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

[Crispy42]

Did she see a vet and/or have a fecal test performed during her quarantine? Where did you adopt her from? If there were other critters there it's possible she picked something up from them.

Do you have any other kinds of feeders you can get? Is the problem maybe the calcium dust or has she eaten dusted crickets before? Also, I would suggest going ahead with the honey bath now. If you're worried then there's really not much point to waiting.

[Frogger00]

A whites tree frog refusing food is a huge problem! If husbandry is all good, it's probably a health issue. I'm not sure what you mean about WTFS being stubborn, mine eat everything they can get their mouths on. I agree with crispy42, you should get a fecal exam done if possible.


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[BrittsBugs]

I got him or her 3/30/2015 it is IN QT.

I adopted it from a young girls parents who were looking to find it a new home, because their daughter wasn't taking responsibility to feed it, so they were caring for it. And decided it was time to find it a new home. I paid an adoption fee of $10.

No other critters were present, thought the tank/enclose was 10gal too small.

I have a variety of feeders I can offer, but no wingless flies. I'm picking up some tonight.

I was told it took dusted crickets before.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

[BrittsBugs]

A whites tree frog refusing food is a huge problem! If husbandry is all good, it's probably a health issue. I'm not sure what you mean about WTFS being stubborn, mine eat everything they can get their mouths on. I agree with crispy42, you should get a fecal exam done if possible.


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Vet appointments been made already. Waiting for a fecal sample. (For it to pop basically) All my WTF's are seen by a vet. They're stubborn by I mean they sometimes stop eating for a full week or two. (Typically after a move, or something other that's stressful) Lol, that's what I mean by stubborn I've been keeping whites for over 3 years.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

[Frogger00]

Vet appointments been made already. Waiting for a fecal sample. (For it to pop basically) All my WTF's are seen by a vet. They're stubborn by I mean they sometimes stop eating for a full week or two. (Typically after a move, or something other that's stressful) Lol, that's what I mean by stubborn I've been keeping whites for over 3 years.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

Sounds like your frog is in good hands. That's interesting that yours stop eating, even when stressed. Mine are absolute pigs! I've had them both for a year, and the only time they've ever refused food is when I initially brought them home. Although, I suppose they are stubborn in other ways-my one frog likes to get out of his cage and chill on my arm, but when I try to put him back in the cage it is a battle! He gets pretty determined to stay on my arm lol and my other one is the complete opposite, hates being touched.


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[BrittsBugs]

Well, actually going to ask on a thread. Does anyone here feed them the occasional pinky?

I've always kept my guys to an insect diet. Fresh water daily, quietest place in the house. A few exceptions were really loud neighbors when I lived in apartments. The only thing that every truly stressed them out there where they stopped eating was when they were replacing the full roofing for the 42 unit complex I lived in, then. I ended up taking them to the vet, and she held onto them and ran tests, after 3 days there they started eating. So, I asked if I could pay a housing fee until construction finished.

(They would start at 6-7 am and there until a little after 2pm, took them almost a full month, plus picking up after nails and debris that they knocked down that could damage our cars, tires, etc laundry was in the back we would have to watch our steps for nails, cords, and random things found on the roof they'd throw down among old shingles carelessly down)

On the upside it gave me a chance to clean, vacuum, clean the windows, and put up the new thermal curtains in the herp room. Once construction was done they came back home and I never had an incidents. Since with the original three.

Admittedly, this is the first juvenile I've taken in. Being only a third the size of all WTF's I have. :/ But I took him in on the off chance I could save him, he looked so underweight, highly visible bones, gorgeous coloring (though not sure how affected by possible stress from a high traffic area with a loud environment), my main optimism with the cutie being his energy level it's giving me hope. But he's gone in to see the vet, he's with her and she'll be keeping him overnight. I did the honey soak last night with no success. I let her know, brought the pinhead crickets and wingless flies I tried tempting the little guy to eat. Explained his previous living conditions, and now current. And she said she'd definitely try all she can to safely get a fecal sample, to make sure it's not intestinal parasites/worms in the feces, and that given the substrate he use to have, it could very well be possible impaction though he doesn't look stuffed and highly undernourished. I agreed, and explained they say he was fed calcium dusted crickets, but I can't prove that they didn't. Only that I really don't believe they did. I think when I asked all the questions I gave little to no leeway for which could be a bad answer. Like, was he fed calcium d3 dusted crickets? And the girls mom would just answer, yes. And then I'd ask how often? And she replied every morning. And then I asked what size? And shed answer the smallest available cricket at petco.

I'm sure a fair amount of the answers were lies, upon seeing his current living environment. They didn't even remove him from the cage. I prepared a travel cage, and had to get him out and place him myself. Though, her parents did tell me they got him from petco a month or so ago as they were chatting as I made my way to leave having given them the $10 adoption fee.

After, they told me that I called the next morning to let my vet know I needed to be scheduled in at the earliest date she could get me in. That I'd have two new whites. The good thing is this chubster here, Mr. Frog checked out. Sent in his poop sample and let her check him over. How his eyes looked, feeding response, how his stomach felt, coloring. Lol, she even got to hear him do his little croak/call as he heard a big dog barking in the waiting room. As per his check up he's good. She'll call to tell me his test results. Him coming petco I have no doubts he's likely got worms. He's a hearty eater but his poops aren't exactly nuggets.

But he's in his QT tank and with treatment he should be all healthy and much better.

:/ Just hoping the little guy will be. He's not looking like he'll make it much longer. I got him to eat one wingless fly, but he looked horribly skinny this morning. Fingers crossed that she figures out what's wrong with him so we can remedy it. If he doesn't, I gave the okay to cut him open and due an autopsy to find out possible cause of his illness.

I'll update everyone the minute she calls me.


-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

[BrittsBugs]

Although, I suppose they are stubborn in other ways-my one frog likes to get out of his cage and chill on my arm, but when I try to put him back in the cage it is a battle! He gets pretty determined to stay on my arm lol and my other one is the complete opposite, hates being touched.


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Awe!! Mine were bad about that, and would pee in my poor boyfriend he got pretty offended in that note and declared he would no longer be handling what he calls pissing whites. Lol, they seem to have a love/hate relationship. But as much as he swears he hates them, he's the first to refill the mister with their bottled water. Lol, especially these days. Getting around at 8 months is slightly difficult. Mr. Frog gave me a heck of a work out when I went to open his QT to clean out poop. He makes a beeline for the exit and always jumps at my chest. xD my poor fiancé he's convinced Mr. Frog is a perv and was some old man in his past life. Lol, I think he's a stubborn frog, and much like yours he absolutely fights going back in the cage. Crawling up my arm, jumping onto my head, anything he can do to stay out longer.

My original two well they get upset when I transfer them to the feeding container for feeding time, but always quickly forgive me. I give them a wet wipe down, and let them crawl off my hand back into their setup. Lol, Mr. Greene and his unique toes get extra attention, he doesn't seem to mind too much except when I'm trying to get a cricket leg off his head and then he pees in my hand. 0.0 hrs a true pig. Tried taking on 3 crickets at one time. I switched him down from large back to mediums. Lol, I'm always paranoid he's going to impact himself eating too much at once. /).(\ But he eats them down and leaves gigantic nuggets for me to pick up. Lol. I did get to see Mr. Frog and Mr. Greene do their call after feeding time. Though the last one, I assume the lady, so I've started calling her Miss Lady, lol she didn't show much interest in the calls, but didn't croak or call so I assume a female.



-BrittsBugs
Reptile & Amphibian Enthusiast
Insect Breeder
Former Rat Breeder
Pets: 6 AUS WTF's, 1 Hon Milk, 1 SM Corn, 1 BP, 5 H.Crabs, 1 C.Gecko, 4 RB Newts, 6 Betas, 5 MH Roaches, 1 L.Gecko, 1 W.Hognose, & so much more

[Lija]

Would you please summarize on what's happening and what is a problem?

What i got is:
1. You are trying to feed 1.5" whites frog pinhead crickets and friut flies? If so get bigger food.
2. It's in quarantine, please describe how it looks like exactly, what you are doing during that time.

[LilyPad]

I was wondering about the pinheads and fruit flies also. Most frogs won't go after food that appears too small to them.

[Lija]

I was wondering about the pinheads and fruit flies also. Most frogs won't go after food that appears too small to them.

Exactly!

[irThumper]

I've noticed the same. Itty bitty bugs become beneath their notice. This guy is big enough for small dubai, small to medium-small crickets, waxworms, small-medium small butterworms and small hornworms. Fruit flies and pinheads would be a waste.

[Crispy42]

This little frog is almost the exact same size as my wtf Steve and I've found that Petsmart's small crickets are the perfect size for him (or small dubias ordered online). At least at my local store the Petco smalls are exceptionally tiny (closer to pinheads) and their mediums are just a bit too big, but Petsmart hit the goldilocks "just right" with their small crickets.

[Frogger00]

This little frog is almost the exact same size as my wtf Steve and I've found that Petsmart's small crickets are the perfect size for him (or small dubias ordered online). At least at my local store the Petco smalls are exceptionally tiny (closer to pinheads) and their mediums are just a bit too big, but Petsmart hit the goldilocks "just right" with their small crickets.

I get mine from petsmart often too. They are a great size! The best size I've found is 2-3 week old crickets. Not pinhead, but not gigantic!


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[BrittsBugs]

Would you please summarize on what's happening and what is a problem?

What i got is:
1. You are trying to feed 1.5" whites frog pinhead crickets and friut flies? If so get bigger food.
2. It's in quarantine, please describe how it looks like exactly, what you are doing during that time.

The problem: Refusal to eat.

What happen: I took in/adopted (whatever you wish to call it) a juvenile whites tree frog that appeared healthy via the CL Ad, but upon seeing Olive in person, looked unhealthy, slightly skinny (bones poking out). And was told previously from bought from petco. Fed on dusted crickets (pinheads) every morning, no problem eating food, and was owned by them for just over a month or so.

1. I did not try to feed it pinheads, I stated that's what I was told the previous owner previously fed Olive.

I offered both small, and medium dusted crickets dusted in vitamin d3, towards noon and again at midnight, whites being nocturnal.

Olive's stated size is estimated at most an 1" 1/2.

Upon refusing these for 3 days my fiancé suggested we should try wingless fruit flies. So, knowing his theory wouldn't work, I let him test his theory out. No dice. I then gave Olive a honey soak as thumper suggested. As I've never had a white who wouldn't poop and have ever needed a honey soak.

Olive seemed more lively. But still did not take interest in the crickets offered.

The next morning I tried again with forceps to encourage Olive's interest in dusted crickets and succeeded in getting Olive to eat 1, I left Olive with the crickets (5) to see if it'd eat anymore. And then I prepared their travel cages, and took Olive and Mr. Frog in to the vet.

Mr. Frog was given a clear bill of health, and his feces were accepted in for testing of worms. I left Olive with the vet and let her do what she could and possibly get him to poop. Mid-noon today she called to let me know all test results for Mr. Frog and to come in for his treatment. And that Olive had not made it through the night, but that he had likely passed to intestinal parasites. And it's poop was indeed found to have worms, too.


This was Olive.

2. Quarantine is a 10gal aquarium with three sides covered, a single water dish to soak, with river rocks added so Olive can't accidentally drown. A small corner plant with low hanging large leaves, and on the opposite side a high suction fake plant (mandarin, hangs fairly long) to sleep under. Misted twice daily with bottled water. Placed in the quietest room in the house, with the least traffic.

I provide no substrate at this time, for both easy clean up, and to avoid risk of possible impaction. Crickets are offered in a separate feeding container and none are ever left in the QT aquarium overnight.


-BrittsBugs

[BrittsBugs]

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-BrittsBugs