LLL Reptile+ USAFrogs.com = RUN

[BrittsBugs]

Agreed thumper, with WTF's my primary reason I'm not in agreement they they should be a popular beginner pet. They're becoming more and more genetically weak if not crossbreed (if you will with Indos), and many amphibian breeders refuse to cross the two separate species (if you will) so as to not dilute either line. While others don't really care.

And I've not seen or heard about anyone who would publicly admit to cross breeding darts.

Their site says they do not mix or cross breed species. Their site has only positive reviews, and the only other negative post I've seen on them is in fauanaforums.

Does anyone actually have any proof these darts are hybrids? I have only seen heresay. Any official investigation(s)?

Admittedly, I don't know a soul who will purchase darts from anyone but Josh's Frogs.


-BrittsBugs
6 AUS White's
1 Hon Milk
1 SM Corn
1 BP
5 HC
1 CG
4 RB Newts
6 Betas
5 MHR

[LilyPad]

Oy, that is so very disappointing. Thanks for the info, Paul.

[Tzunu un]

Please see the thread in Dendroboard regarding USA frogs as it has a lot of information.
(this is the active thread and is long. there is also an older closed thread)
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...s-usafrog.html

There is also a thread at Dart Den, but you need to be a member there to read.


According to these threads, LLL is selling some of USA Frogs, and USA Frogs is making hybrids between different morphs.

As far as I know USA Frogs is only raising dart frogs.


I do not want to get into an active discussion about this as you will more than get your fill from the threads about USA Frogs, their business practices, and interaction with the dart frog community.
Their web page states that they have over 8,000 tadpoles/frogs in house, anyone else have concerns with mass production at this scale?

You can also find a letter from Dr. Stefan Lotters (main author of “Poison Frogs: Biology, Species, and Captive Husbandry”) informing USA Frogs to stop using material from his book on their site / for marketing, that they have misinterpreted and misused the work, and how he disapproves.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...e-lotters.html



Like Paul, I personally choose not to ever consider buying from USA Frogs or USA Frogs' frogs indirectly from other sources.

I strongly urge everyone to make sure that they have breeder / source information for any dart frogs purchased and that they buy from reputable breeders / suppliers that will provide this information. If they won't provide source information, then I would be concerned.....bad reviews posted, then I would be concerned.

This will make sure that you have quality frogs, will hamper/stop illegal importation, and will keep any potentially "questionable" breeding stock out of the hobby and from being sold.

[DigitalPunk]

If you are looking for Dart frogs and want to buy something outside of what Josh has there are several reputable breeders as well as a whole host of hobby breeders that can be found on facebook. If you are seriously interested PM me and I can point you to some of my favorites.

[DigitalPunk]

and yes this pertains only to Dart frogs. Sorry I didn't make that clearer in my first post. The Hobby as a whole is at war with USAFrogs. Finding out a company like LLL is reselling their frogs is truly.

[irThumper]

I'm a die-hard White's tree frog frogger, so won't be in the market for Darts, but I do enjoy looking at other folks Dart frogs that and it pays to have up to date info when discussing other froggers frogs :P I went and looked at that USAfrogs website just for the helluvit and was overwhelmed by all the trademarked falderal... that in itself is enough to make a person head for the hills @_@

Good info, if anyone asks me about this I will be sure to direct them here!

[ColleenT]

i agree with James, i have seen the long-long-long Threads on Dendro about them and peoples experiences and what they know about them. I would stay clear of ordering Darts from LLL now, unless they tell you they are NOT buying from USAfrog, which has changed their name many times.