Thermostat help

[AbranV]

Good evening everyone,
I'm going to hit you all with a few heating questions, and a few "what ifs" as well.

Alrighty
1. Where is the best spot to place the probe for the thermostat? Ex. Close to the substrate, center of the tank, etc.

2. If the chord to the thermostat prob is close to a heat source, but the probe tip is further away, could that affect the temperature reading?
3. What's the most efficient way to heat a vivarium?

4. Can someone please explain to me the correlation between watts, electricity, and heat? Ex. More watts = more electricity = more heat

[AbranV]

Sorry, I accidentally hit send. Where were we..

5. Hypothetical question. If done correctly, and a person had the right equipment. Could you mount a strip of heat tape to the INSIDE of a vivarium? Obviously it would be for a non-jumpy type of frog like pacmans.

I have some more questions, but my brain is currently out to lunch. Once it returns I'll ask the rest of them.

Thanks

[deranged chipmunk]

I'm not the best when it comes to heating tanks because, well, I just don't use any supplemental heat sources. But I will answer the questions best I can.

1. IMHO, it depends on where the frog spends the majority of it's time. If it's a terrestrial frog, I would place the probe just a few inches above the substrate. For tree frogs, I would place it more towards the top of the enclosure.

2. No, the cord should not make a difference. Although a case could be made for the wire heating and in turn heating the thermostatic bulb in the sensor via radiant heating, thereby raising the temp reading. But this would be a stretch.

3. Depends on the species. Heating the room is normally the most efficient, however not always attainable for some species with higher temp requirements.

4. I'll try to put this in simplistic terms, as my electrical instructor put it way back when when I was in electrical class.
Wattage, in it's simplistic form, it the amount of work that electricity is doing. The higher wattage, the more work, the higher the temps. Simply put, the higher the wattage, the more work, creates more heat.



Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

Forgot #5. Just not worth the risk, man.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AbranV]

Awesome Bill, once again you come through with your Yoda-like advice

1. Makes sense

2. That's what I was thinking, but wanted to ask anyways.

3. This is a biggie. I suffer from a major endocrine disorder, my body either can't produce or regulate hormones correctly, one of the issues related to that is regulating my body's reaction to temperature. Basically, I don't tolerate heat at all. 65-70 degrees is tolerable, 70-75 is uncomfortable, and anything above sucks. This makes raising the overall room temp. a problem. I'm thinking of building an insulated, TV cabinet type thing to keep the vivarium in.

5. I knew it was something along those lines. My brain's fried from trying to keep this pacman heated, so I thought I'd ask here instead of asking Google

5. I figured as much, but I thought I'd toss it out there to see what was said.

[LilyPad]

I keep the probe right in the middle of my vivarium (tied to a branch) and use a ceramic heat emitter as my heat source.

[deranged chipmunk]

That sucks man. And realistically, even without your condition, setting ambient temps in your house to mimic that of a pacman enclosure just isn't realistic. Who wants to live in that heat?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[monster]

I use 2 permanent gauges and one during the day that I take out at night that I place in the middle of the tank. The permanent ones are on each end of the tank, one in the warm end and one in the cold. The one in the warm end is about 4 inches from the side wall and right between the front and back walls and this is placed on a plant stem, mine is sitting right on the substrate but a lot of people put it about an inch above. The one in the cold end is stuck to the side right in the middle and this one is abit above the substrate. This way I always know what the temp is on both ends and if he chooses to sit in the cool end, with my big UTH hooked up to a dimmer I can raise the temps in the cool end abit so he still digest properly. I put the one in the middle during the day but take it out at night so he doesn't plow over it. And I got to get it out before the bugger wakes up because if not he will come after my hand. L.O.L

[AbranV]

That sucks man. And realistically, even without your condition, setting ambient temps in your house to mimic that of a pacman enclosure just isn't realistic. Who wants to live in that heat?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

We usually keep the house in the low to mid sixties. Which makes heating up the tank a little more difficult. We tried bumping it up to the upper sixties the difference of just a few degrees has made a difference in the pacman's tank.

[AbranV]

That sucks man. And realistically, even without your condition, setting ambient temps in your house to mimic that of a pacman enclosure just isn't realistic. Who wants to live in that heat?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

We usually keep the house in the low to mid sixties. Which makes heating up the tank a little more difficult. We tried bumping it up to the upper sixties the difference of just a few degrees has made a difference in the pacman's tank. I think I screwed up by buying too low of a wattage heat tape.

[AbranV]

I use 2 permanent gauges and one during the day that I take out at night that I place in the middle of the tank. The permanent ones are on each end of the tank, one in the warm end and one in the cold. The one in the warm end is about 4 inches from the side wall and right between the front and back walls and this is placed on a plant stem, mine is sitting right on the substrate but a lot of people put it about an inch above. The one in the cold end is stuck to the side right in the middle and this one is abit above the substrate. This way I always know what the temp is on both ends and if he chooses to sit in the cool end, with my big UTH hooked up to a dimmer I can raise the temps in the cool end abit so he still digest properly. I put the one in the middle during the day but take it out at night so he doesn't plow over it. And I got to get it out before the bugger wakes up because if not he will come after my hand. L.O.L

I have it set up very similar to your tank. The only difference is that I have heat tape where you have the bigger UTH. I have the same smaller UTH as you on the side of the tank. I've also been keeping three thermometers inside the tank. One on the hot corner with the probe about two inches above the substrate, almost touching the side. I have a big digital home thermo/hygro combination in the middle near the back. The third is a glass aquarium thermometer positioned in the opposite side of the hot corner, but in the front of the tank. I have a 40w normal incandescent bulb to help out.

I have the UTH and heat tape connected to a Reptitherm thermostat. Unfortunately its not digital, so its been a little difficult to get dialed in.

I plan on buying an infrared thermometer just to make life easier, and either get rid of the heat tape and go with a bigger UTH or ceramic heat emitter. And yes, someday a Hygrotherm.

Do you use an actual rheostat? Or is it your standard lamp type dimmer?

[monster]

Hi, sorry didn't see this till now. At the moment I just use a dimmer hooked to the 30-40 gallon uth on the back wall. I hooked it up to this one because it takes up 3/4 of the back wall so its easiest way to raise the temps in the cool end if he chooses to sit there. I have spots on the dimmer control marked with pen were my day time and night time temps are. But I have ordered a hydrotherm for the summer because the temps in the house aren't constantly the same like in the winter due to the windows and stuff being open.
Oh and ya its just a $8 lamp dimmer from home depot. Home depot I find is better half the time for buying stuff for your reptiles, amphibians and fish then the actual pet store.

[AbranV]

Some of the guys at Home Depot and Lowes know me by name I'm there so often. Maybe not actually by name, I'm more known to them as "the dude that builds the crazy sh**" Its a great resource to utilize. I only wish they carried smaller bulkheads and ball valves.

Here's a question to test your knowledge.

Let's use your bigger UTH as an example. Would a dimmer or thermostat allow you to RAISE the temperature of the UTH higher than just plugging it into an outlet?

I have some nichrome wire that I used to build a homemade styrofoam hot wire cutter. I know that I can crank that up pretty hot to the point the wire would be red hot. Its the same type of wire in the Zoo Med UTH heaters, obviously different gauge.

I have the same 10-20 gallon UTH on my roach bin, as I do on the side of the pacman tank and it easily hits the mid eighties. The only difference is that it's mounted under the tank and the heat isn't getting released into the room.

I'm also thinking of conducting an experiment on an empty 10gallon tank. I'm thinking of using a small UTH mounted under the tank and building your standard egg crate false bottom, but only an inch or two tall. I'll cover it with window screen but also place a layer of quilt batting over the screen. The theory being that the UTH would warm the air below the substrate, and then the substrate itself. The quilt batting would protect the frog from rubbing against the window screen. It should help the overall humidity and temperature, but also protect the frog from burning itself. The only problem I haven't worked out yet is making sure the glass doesn't crack. I've misted my roach tank with no problems.

Any thoughts?

[monster]

If I leave the dimmer at full and didn't adjust anything my tank will hit 84f in which its the same if I just plugged the UTH into the wall directly. I really got the dimmer to beable to turn it down if the temps raised to much for some reason and to turn it down at night. And I think with the thermostat even if it is set at lets say 85f and your matt is only able to hit an airtemp of 82f, your still only going to get 82f even if it is set at 85f. I guess you would need to make sure your heat source could produce the heat your setting the thermostat at. That's my guess on that question and if im wrong someone please correct me, im still learning and trying to make sense of some stuff myself. for the mounting on the bottom I know a lot always say don't it put there it can burn them. While I agree with this to some degree I wouldn't put on the bottom for the reason these are burrowing frogs, and when they get warm they will go under the substrate to cool off and get away from the heat. If his substrate is warm he wont be able to regulate his body temperature properly and it wonder why he cant cool off.