LLL Reptile - My experiences

[Malduroque]

First order from them was last April (2014). It was three green tree frogs and four grey tree frogs. All were eating when I received them and a year later I have six of the seven frogs. One of the green tree frogs died after about six months. Good deal.

Last month (Feb 2015) I ordered four Clown Tree Frogs and four Asian Black Toads. The order came with only three toads. When I called them and informed them of their mistake, the customer service person contacted whoever packs the orders and he told her that they only had three left so that's what they sent me. Realizing their mistake, they promptly refunded the cost of the fourth toad. Of course hearing it was the last three they had was an automatic red flag for me! Sure enough, one was very lethargic from the get go and died within days. A second one never ate and died in after about two weeks. The third one is eating and seems just fine...so far. As for the Clown Tree frogs, none of them would feed from feeding tongs so I have just dropped small crickets into their enclosure. It's a heavily planted terrarium so I can't confirm that any of them have eaten or how many I have left. What I can confirm is that two died in the first week, and at this point I only see one come to the water bowl at night, but he's very skinny so I don't know how long he'll last.

Bottom line, that order, including shipping, came to around $200 and at the only certain healthy thing I have to show for it is one $10 toad.

You pay your money and you take your chances. Unfortunately the money part is not unlimited.

[MatthewM1]

Were they WC or CBB

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Asian black toads are always WC, except maybe in the for sale section here, and on Caudata.org

[LilyPad]

There is always a risk with WC (if they were wild caught.) WC usually need immediate treatment. Did you get them tested for parasites or other things right away? Did you get vet treatment for the ones that were ill? Not saying that could have saved them, but it might still save your clown tree frog. I only have 1/8 tree frogs that are willing to tong feed, it's not unusual for them not to, I feed them from a bowl. Also, all new frogs should be in a quarantine enclosure, damp, unprinted paper towel as substrate that are changed every 1-2 days and a water dish for soaking. This way you can monitor their eating and defecating to make sure everything is normal. This way you also would know exactly how many you have left, this does sound like very poor monitoring for a new animal that had to go through the stress of shipping. This is where you should move your remaining frog(s) and toad now (separately of course.) Wild caught species should have fecals sent in for testing, especially if they're having issues, so that they can be treated quickly. If they are carrying any parasites, you will need to break down your enclosures and get them sterilized. Good luck and let us know if you need more help. Did they refund your money for the toad that passed away quickly?

[gut]

I had something similar happen to the Asian Spectacled toad I ordered from them this February as a bday present to myself. I had her [him?] in a simple set up in a different room from the other frogs for quarantine, she was doing awesome, and then within a few weeks she'd developed weird lesions on her body and became lethargic/weak. Took her to the vet but the vet wasn't even sure what was causing it, in the end I had her put to sleep because she was just going downhill fast. Not sure I'd order any other toads from them because of this, I'd be afraid of them being exposed to whatever her condition was. [Maybe that's overly paranoid? i dunno]

Anyhow, good luck with your remaining fellas, I hope they turn around.

[Malduroque]

There is always a risk with WC (if they were wild caught.) WC usually need immediate treatment. Did you get them tested for parasites or other things right away? Did you get vet treatment for the ones that were ill? Not saying that could have saved them, but it might still save your clown tree frog. I only have 1/8 tree frogs that are willing to tong feed, it's not unusual for them not to, I feed them from a bowl. Also, all new frogs should be in a quarantine enclosure, damp, unprinted paper towel as substrate that are changed every 1-2 days and a water dish for soaking. This way you can monitor their eating and defecating to make sure everything is normal. This way you also would know exactly how many you have left, this does sound like very poor monitoring for a new animal that had to go through the stress of shipping. This is where you should move your remaining frog(s) and toad now (separately of course.) Wild caught species should have fecals sent in for testing, especially if they're having issues, so that they can be treated quickly. If they are carrying any parasites, you will need to break down your enclosures and get them sterilized. Good luck and let us know if you need more help. Did they refund your money for the toad that passed away quickly?

I know it's many months later but thank you for your reply. In answer to your questions:1) In my 50+ years of herping I have never taken a specimen to the vet. It would make the hobby unaffordable for me. 2) I normally do put new arrivals in bare bones quarantined tanks. This one time I did not. My error. 3) I did not report the ones that died early to LLL since all dealers seem to have a live arrival guarantee at most.

Final update, all frogs and toads from that purchase are dead. One of the toads lasted about eight weeks while the others demises were much swifter.

You mention 1/8 tree frogs of yours tong feed. Are you referring to clown tree frogs only or any species?

[LilyPad]

To be honest, my opinion is always that if you cannot afford vet care, you cannot afford the hobby. I would never let my cats die a slow death without even attempting treatment, and neither would I let my frogs die a slow death without attempting treatment. You should especially be aware that wild caught animals usually definitely need vet care. The stress of captivity can allow pathogens they could normally fight off or keep at bay in the wild to take over. All of my wild caught frogs, at the very least, had fecal testing and parasite treatment. I do not believe that should be 100% on the buyer though, a company should be shipping out healthy animals to begin with. My captive bred frogs are just watched for normal fecal movements and that they're eating well.

I'm glad you know to do a bare bones qt tank, hopefully it helped out with this next round!

I would have still reported to LLL regardless of whether or not they were willing to process a refund. They should be made aware that they sent out ill animals. I'm not sure if there would be any point to it at this time though.

I'm so sorry for your loss, I would be very upset about losing every single one. That definitely shows poor quality animals that should have never been shipped out. I'm glad your new ones are doing much better.

Tong feeding, I mean out of all my tree frog species. Only one has ever been willing to take food from a tongs. That is not really that uncommon, but I gave up working with them on it long ago. Bowl feeding seems to work really well for my guys. If tong feeding works well for you, that's great too. So long as they are being fed, it's good

[123nave]

I have always had a great time with LLLreptile.com, except for there leopard geckos, one arrived pregnant the other wouldn't eat at first, both are doing great now. But one will only eat 2 day old pinkies, but she is a giant so I guess its not that bad, but all my other pets bought from there were great, they were 4 leopard geckos, a giant pixie frog, and a savannah monitor.

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