Giant Waxy Monkey Frog help.

[Diver]

This morning's update: I've removed the fogger and the fan has been set to switch on and off at random times to improve airflow. The cage is actually a shower enclosure with double glazed sides and a mesh roof. I can easily replace the front door with a screen door if this is the way to go although the humidity is now at 45%. My only concern is that pretty much all the care sheets I've looked at seem to recommend 60% (with one I just found relating to a zoo where they are kept at 65%). While they are waxies, unlike sauvagii they are not from the dry Chacoan region, and the waxy adaptation in bicolor may be more to do with being able to withstand the breezy conditions in the upper rainforest canopy. An area where the frog can move in and out of at will and tolerate these dryer conditions for longer while still able to move back to the more humid conditions lower down.
Anyway, that's just a thought and clearly these frogs can be kept in dry conditions without harm either way but presumably only if they are descending to a water source at night to hydrate. The two I have do NOT appear to be doing this or eating at present.
I've been using a video camera at night to monitor their behaviour, but a tape only lasts for 90 mins so nothing was certain, however I bought yesterday a ccty system with hard drive so I can now record a full night and watch it on fast forward to see what's happening. I've just done this and can confirm that last night they did not use the water bowl and they did not feed. There was some slight, brief movement, but this seemed to be relocation to possibly being nibbled by crickets (I keep a bowl of cricket food in there to help prevent this).
Just to stress, I am not concerned that as a species they don't move around much, this may or may not be the case naturally. My concern is that mine don't move at all to hydrate or feed.
I'll remove the substrate today and replace with paper towels to see if any pop shows up.
The slight movement last night enabled me to get some slightly better photos, they do appear dryer to me and one of them seems to have some skin partially sloughed and stuck:



















Incidentally Lija, what is the give away that makes the one in that fourth photo down female? And what do you think about the other one gender-wise?

Thanks again for all input!

[Lija]

Need pic that would show the profile of the frog, the line from the nose down the chin, not sideways or the angle, but like 4th pic. Be back on that. In females that line goes straight down like in that pic, in males it goes on an angle, chin is visibly more out.

dont like the excess shredded skin on one of them.

ok, can you the following , do electrolyte bath, 10 parts of water: 1 part of unflavoured pedyalite or whatever else you have in stores. Any pediatric unflavoured electrolyte solution would do. Keep in a bath no higher then frogs chin for 20 min. Warning.... They will hate every second of it!
The bath will help them with water exchange and will make them feel better after they're past the fact of a bath itself lol but do up at night, when the lights are off.

humidity, yes they need higher humidity then waxies, but it has to go with excellent airflow. Very similar to chameleons.

[irThumper]

Diver... a converted shower stall and a froggy surveillance system?? Man, you are hard core... I love it!

[Diver]

Diver... a converted shower stall and a froggy surveillance system?? Man, you are hard core... I love it!

Well I knew these were going to be difficult and I'm prepared to do absolutely anything to give them the best chance possible. From the research I'd done I knew a large enclosure was needed, I wasn't prepared for the complete lack of movement or any apparent will to live hence the surveillance system to remove and question or assumption about their activities.
Unfortunately last night's footage reveals that one didn't move a muscle and the other moved about 6 inches from the stalk she was sitting on to a piece of moss on the tree trunk at 6 this morning. Not good. Still no water or food being taken.
I have turned the fogger back on this morning to get the humidity back up to 60% as they're clearly not hydrating themselves. I've also changed the timer on the fan to come on less frequently. I'm heading to the pharmacy this morning to see what I can buy for an electrolyte bath (we don't have Pedyalite over here).

[Diver]

OK, tracked down some unflavoured electrolyte and the frogs had their 20 minute bath. They weren't energetic and fell back asleep without much of a struggle. I'll monitor them for the next couple of days but if no food is taken I'm think I'm going to have to consider force feeding

[Diver]

Time for an update! Overall, good news I think, they're both still alive in any case. Lija's suggestion of an electrolyte bath seemed to work well. The footage over the next few days showed activity - not a huge amount, but perhaps more like what I would expect. I haven't actually seen feeding, but it's possible as there are a number of places in the vivarium not covered by the camera so that's inconclusive.
The only small worry was yesterday morning after the lights came on I found the slightly smaller individual wondering around the floor looking emaciated and dehydrated. I went to grab the things I needed for another electrolyte bath but by the time I came back he/she had found the water bowl and was sitting in it so I poured the electrolyte solution in there instead. I didn't think he would last the day as he looked really unwell but to my surprise when I came home from work I found him sitting on the edge of the bowl looking really good again:



I didn't take a 'before' photo, but trust me, he looked really bad.
He hasn't moved a muscle since then and is still perched on the water bowl this morning 24 hours later. The other one also hasn't moved for a couple of nights:



Really hard to tell what's going on with these guys. When in the roosting position, they both look really well (and quite chubby), but when walking around they look very thin and under nourished. I think it's clear that they are struggling to stay hydrated so for the moment I've switched the fan off completely and maintaining the humidity at 60% with the fogger and misting to see how we go. Feeding-wise it's possible they are eating and then sleeping for extended periods afterwards which I believe is normal behaviour? I'm going to try and set further cameras up to see if I can shed some light on this.

Incidentally, as far as sexing is concerned. I was aware of the nose profile method with sauvagii, but I didn't know that applied to bicolor too. Here's a better shot of the profile of the slightly smaller one:



To my untrained eye, looks like maybe I have one of each?

[Diver]

Still struggling with these guys. They look constantly dehydrated to me. I gave them another electrolyte bath a few days ago after which the larger one sought out the higher of the two water bowls in the vivarium and soaked herself for a fair while afterwards. The smaller one just went back to sleep on the leaf I put him on until this morning when I found him on the floor looking unwell again and with partially sloughed skin. I gave him another electrolyte bath and put him back and this time this one sought out a water bowl and got in for a soak:











Currently the fogger is set at 60%, the fan comes on for 15 mins three times a day and the automatic mister comes on for 45 seconds three times a day. The vivarium is big and the screen area is large so it's pretty dry in there (never any condensation). Can I possibly be keeping them too dry? Is that even likely with this species under these conditions? Really open to suggestions!