Giant Waxy Monkey Frog help.

[Diver]

Hi everyone, I wonder if I could ask for some advice?
I managed to purchase three Phyllomedusa bicolor from Hamm on 14th of March (quite a rarity over here!)
I bought them from a Czech dealer who said that they were wild-caught (of course) and he had them since before last Christmas and had treated them with antibiotics and they were feeding on crickets. (Obviously only his word for this). They appear in good condition with no visible wounds or lesions and apparently in good health.
The issue is since I got them home, they haven't moved or even opened their eyes with almost no exception. There's 2 large (probable female) and one smaller (probable male). I would ordinarily put this behaviour down to the stress of relocating, but there comes a point when you think they are going to starve themselves to death if it continues much longer.
The smaller individual was on the floor of the vivarium the other morning, eyes open and covered in substrate (eco-earth). I took him over to the water bowl and cleaned him off and let him sit in there (in case it was water he was looking for). He climbed out after a minute or two but is very unsteady and weak looking. I held a cricket in front of him but of course he showed to interest. He was then moving around in this unsteady fashion looking distressed and like he might fall at any minute. He died later that day. In desperation (and against the advice of care sheets as to correct humidity) that night I heavily misted the vivarium, absolutely soaked it (as if a tropical storm had passed through) to my surprise the remaining two woke up and started waxing themselves. They then moved around the vivarium and quite possibly fed although I didn't see this (crickets and locusts are present at all times). Since then they have gone back to this apparently dormant state but seem to be getting thinner. I've been varying the humidity and have tried soaking again but this has had no further effect.
Not sure what to do for the best, I considered a vet, but it would be considerable extra stress (which might the problem in the first place) and there isn't anything obviously medically wrong. That and the only herp vet anywhere near I have my doubts about (but I'll start another thread on that!)
They are in a 200cm x 70cm x 70cm vivarium with humidity at 60% and a temperature gradient of 30C and the top to 22C at the bottom. The room they are in is not used and very quiet at all times.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!


Many thanks,


Jason.

[Lija]

Need more info, based on what you said so far - you need basking spot at about 32-34C during a day. Humidity is a bit too high as well, however bicolors can tolerate a bit higher humidity then waxies, you will need to keep it under 50, 60 is ok occasionally.

Do you have uvb? If so how strong?

pics of the frogs are needed, not getting exactly what antibiotics were used and why. You need to get their poop tested. WC will always have a heavy parasite load, it's needs to be fixed asap in captivity.

vivarium - can't see, it's it glass or mesh?

[Diver]

Hi Lija,

Thanks for the response. The vivarium is glass except for the top which is mesh. There's a basking light and a 2ft 5% tube up there along with a ceramic heater and moonlight bulbs on a thermostat. There are also heat mats attached to the outside of the rear wall low down, again thermostatically controlled.
Humidity is controlled by a repti-fogger on a humidistat. I set it at 60% after referring to these care sheets:

How to Care for the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog
Phyllomedusa bicolor care sheet - talk to the frog
MonkeyFrogs.com - Phyllomedusine Species List
Giant Bicolor Monkey Tree Frog Care - JABBERWOCK REPTILESJABBERWOCK REPTILES

I've turned the fogger off for tonight so I'll see how low the humidity goes. What do you think would be the correct level to aim for would be?
I'll get some photos of the actual animals in the morning.
Poop might be a problem - I haven't seen any yet!

Thanks again for taking the time to help!

[Diver]

Here's some photos of the guys themselves:























Having turned off the humidifier and added a fan blowing gently downward last night, the humidity has dropped below 50%. There was movement, the frog near the top of the cage has moved down to half way where the other one has been sitting for days. Maybe to get away from the breeze? Unfortunately it seems I didn't switch my camera on to record last night so I don't know how much activity there was apart from this relocation. I'll make sure to set it tonight.

[Lija]

The biggest concern here is your cage, it doesn't provide enough air flow. Stagnant air will kill them even if everything else is fine, but I think for your smaller one, the one that died, that was an cause. I think he was already sick and stressed out. Bigger females sometimes bully poor guys too, especially if kept in not exactly oroperly conditions and you don't know how the seller kept them before. My point is I don't think anything you did or didn't do could have changed the outcome.

it is a modified fish tank , right? If so, you can substitute one side with all mesh?

skip the fogger all together, no need for it. A spray once a week or a few days a week is sufficient, have a water bowl, they will go soak up they feel the need.

Dont expect much of movement lol these are waxies, well , the giant ones, but they all are the same. They take a word lazy to the whole new level lol sometimes they are too lazy to even open their eyes... Later when they get used to the environment, try very gently to move sleeping frog to your finger.... I bet it won't notice, and if it would it'll be too lazy to wake up lol very funny.

they look healthy, the 4th pic from the top is a female. Keep looking for a poop unfortunately you put them in naturalistic tank.... Is there any way to change soil to papertowels? It will help with see the poop.... And you will need to remove everything anyway when you are going to treat them. Unless the seller meant antiparasitic treatment, not antibiotics.

Are they eating?

[irThumper]

Just wondering, as I have no Waxie experience, but is it normal for Waxies to sit hunched like that?