Weird breeding/buying/owning question

[AbranV]

I have a strange question for all of the dart frog owners and breeders.

I found a local breeder with dart and thumbnail tadpoles, and it got me thinking. If I were to buy a pair of froglets (from the same clutch) a few months OOW, and they mature into a male and female adults(brother and sister), then happen to breed. Is that a "bad" thing? I'm sure its not good.

Does amphibian inbreeding cause defects like in other animal species?

Its something I hadn't thought about while looking for frogs. I'm not interested in breeding them on purpose, but if nature were to work its magic, and I get inbred tadpoles. Will I end up with two-headed, six legged froglets?

I'm curious to see what the overall opinion on this would be

[deranged chipmunk]

As long as they are within the the same fillia generation you are good. Brother/sister is ok, but parent/offspring is bad.

But DUDE! How cool would it be to have a 2 headed, six legged froglet? I mean, seriously? Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AbranV]

As long as they are within the the same fillia generation you are good. Brother/sister is ok, but parent/offspring is bad.

But DUDE! How cool would it be to have a 2 headed, six legged froglet? I mean, seriously? Lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

Craziness, brother/sister OK?

So much for my two headed, six legged best

[deranged chipmunk]

Yup, I know, to humans, this is a truly foreign concept, but to is chipmunks, it's completely normal, I assure you. (Thank goodness I have no sisters! Lol) but yes, in fact, when you buy froglets from a breeder, you'll normally find out they are if the same generation (ex. f2, f3, ect). They may be of different clutches, but still siblings. That's why you always hear about people trying to add new bloodlines, to bring it back to f1. I know I didn't really explain it well, it gets confusing.

You can still get that 2 headed, 6 legger, you just need a geneticist with sketchy morals. If you find one, let me know, I am looking for one to create me a 6 foot isopod to ride to work! Lol




Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[PubFiction]

I disagree with the above it is NOT good to breed brothers and sisters. You are still decreasing the genetic diversity of the captive population. Dart froggers tend to pretend this is OK out of selfish motivations. Basically it cost a lot more money and time to try to source frogs from different parents. Will you see 3 armed frogs right away, nope but there can be many problems that will start popping up later down the line. In fact you don't even know if the frog you received was actually from the same exact situation unless you ask and trust the breeder.

Remember EVEN with humans if you hitch up with your sister today and make a baby that baby is HIGHLY unlikely to have any birth defects or disadvantages. The problem gets to be when it happens to multiple generations. That is why everyone at ALL generations is suppose to try to avoid this. There is no lack of dart froggers whom are already inbreeding like crazy why add to the problem?

[deranged chipmunk]

I would agree IF Abran were breeding for profit. Then of course you want to diversify your bloodline. HOWEVER, Abran is like myself and not interested in breeding for profit, it was out of curiosity that IF siblings were to breed, would it be ok, and that was the question I was answering. And yeah, I know, anyone can read the thread, and can be confused with it, so I will put it this way:

To anyone reading: if breeding for profit, then you should diversify your bloodlines.
If you simply have siblings that happen to breed, it will not be the end of the world.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AbranV]

I would agree IF Abran were breeding for profit. Then of course you want to diversify your bloodline. HOWEVER, Abran is like myself and not interested in breeding for profit, it was out of curiosity that IF siblings were to breed, would it be ok, and that was the question I was answering. And yeah, I know, anyone can read the thread, and can be confused with it, so I will put it this way:

To anyone reading: if breeding for profit, then you should diversify your bloodlines.
If you simply have siblings that happen to breed, it will not be the end of the world.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

Perfectly said Bill. This was just another of my many questions as I prepare for my dart frog adventure.

PubFiction, I also understand and agree with your statement. If I were intentionally breeding, it would be important to find separate bloodlines.

[flybyferns]

This is not a weird question ... at all

My 2 cents

It's important to mix bloodlines.
It takes a long time and a lot of planning.

It just took Heatheranne 7 months to mix out adult and sub-adult R variabils "Southern" ( we fostered for each other )

We mixed-out sibs and grouped 2 lines.
We have - 2 sets each - beautiful breeding adults from 2 highly respected sources.

The results are wonderful
AND offspring are gorgeous

I will also be able to add and additional ( unrelated to the others ) to the breeding group. Offspring of one of the pair I fostered for Heath.
Kind of hard to follow.

Lots of work !!!

Find a 'frog friend'

Heath has a thread going here: http://www.frogforum.net/dart-frogs-...-southern.html
Her *pair that just bred are from John Clare--- and very prolific. The additional one I'm keeping is from *their first clutch; about a month old
I put some photos up on FB yesterday

[AbranV]

The breeder I've been talking to has varadero and leuc tads right now and I'm assuming if I were to get a pair they would likely be siblings, and unsexable. It would be a roll of the dice if they were male and female. I was just curious what the possible issues could arise IF they were to breed.

That's going to be awhile down the road before I purchase darts. I just want to make sure I know all that I can before that day comes around.

[flybyferns]

Good Morning ,

We were just talking about this in another thread, recently ?

My 2 cents

If that bothers you , there is a simple solution !
Simply buy from 2 different breeders.
There is certainly no shortage of breeders working w/ these 2 species.

I believe if you have a trio there is an 88% chance of your getting a pair.
I can't find the chart, sorry.

I will guarantee you something. Your frogs WILL breed for you if you have a pair
It is not difficult to get many species of PDF to breed; especially these 2 species.

Rearing, consistent/ on-going/ proper care, and providing the best possible husbandry to help them live long lives in captivity is the 'starving artist' part of our hobby.

IMO... It is our responsibly to do the very best we can to promote healthy offspring.

[AbranV]

Good Morning ,

We were just talking about this in another thread, recently ?

My 2 cents

If that bothers you , there is a simple solution !
Simply buy from 2 different breeders.
There is certainly no shortage of breeders working w/ these 2 species.

I believe if you have a trio there is an 88% chance of your getting a pair.
I can't find the chart, sorry.

I will guarantee you something. Your frogs WILL breed for you if you have a pair
It is not difficult to get many species of PDF to breed; especially these 2 species.

Rearing, consistent/ on-going/ proper care, and providing the best possible husbandry to help them live long lives in captivity is the 'starving artist' part of our hobby.

IMO... It is our responsibly to do the very best we can to promote healthy offspring.

Lynn,

I'm not concerned about it at all. I was the little kid that would always ask "why" about everything, and I still do it today.

I'm full of "what if" type questions and ideas. Just wait until I share all the craziness floating around my head now.