Feeding trouble

[elly]

My large WTF, Bonk was doing well, but recently I've had a lot of trouble getting him to eat. It's not that he won't eat at all, just that he's reluctant and slow and my small frog is always ready to try to snatch his food, from across the tank if necessary.

I tried to remove him to quarantine but he was wedged into the corner too tightly to grab. He won't tong feed any more, but he did grab an escaped cricket today after a week of not eating.

Right now the plan is to take the small frog out whenever the big one needs to eat, overnight if necessary. But I'm wondering if I absolutely need to quarantine the large one instead, just in case he's sick. I'm afraid quarantine would stress him out unnecessarily.

Also are there any tricks I haven't thought of for managing two frogs or getting a shy frog to eat?

(I'm also a little concerned that the small frog's going to explode from all the extra crickets he's grabbed.)

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Have you tried putting wax-worms in a dish? even the most reluctant herps love wax-worms!

[LilyPad]

I have a bully grey tree frog who won't let any of the other frogs eat. I solved it by bowl feeding, she "guards" her bowl and bites at any other frogs that try to get to it. So I use 2 bowls, the other 2 share a bowl and she gets her own. It solved the issue completely. I used to take her out while the others ate, but it was really unnecessary stress.

[elly]

I considered wax worms, but I don't want him to start refusing other food. Maybe in the future if he stays this reluctant.

Two bowls is something I thought of, but the little frog isn't a territorial bully, just greedy. I could imagine him eating the crickets in one bowl then moving on to the next. But I'm going to try it anyway.

[LilyPad]

At least it will take up a bit of time to eat the crickets out of their bowl first lol. Let us know how it goes! You may need to change up feeding times too. If the one that isn't eating is just too sleepy to care while the other one is game for food at any time, you might want to feed later at night. I agree with holding off on the waxworms. That's more like a donut, high in fat, low in nutrition. Not a good staple to get them stuck on. You could also try dubia roaches though if he has trouble chasing down faster foods.

[irThumper]

I still have a bit of trouble with Honey, though he seems to have gotten his appetite back since his little fasting fit. He's trying to change the game rules on me or something, lol. For a while he refused the crickets in any way shape or form and would only hand eat waxworms, which was actually good for me since that was how I medicated them. Now he's taking crickets again but ONLY if I turn them loose in the cage AND do NOT take Shirley out, even though she gobbles everything in sight! He will just sit staring up at where I am holding her, or where she is sitting in a dish on Jelly's house. No one is going to convince me that it is impossible for frogs to develop attachments... it may be improbable, but I don't believe it is impossible. I've tried feeding her in a dish nut she just snarfs everything up then exits to go after the loose ones. Honey refuses to bowl feed anymore. The weirdo! He doesn't want to take crickets by hand or tong either,, though he will still take waxworms by hand. He also wakes up way later than Shirley, which is a pain in the butt, so I feel for what you are going through! The three finally have cleared fecal tests, so I know that's not the issue. Martha and Lucy still need to be treated for strongyloides, though, and are off their feed too; I hate waiting to treat them this long, but with the cold I have I am in no condition to force meds down a frogs gullet. They don't take waxworms, with or without tong feeding, so that's where I'm stuck in the medicating, bleh.

Have you fecal tested your guys lately?

[irThumper]

I still have a bit of trouble with Honey, though he seems to have gotten his appetite back since his little fasting fit. He's trying to change the game rules on me or something, lol. For a while he refused the crickets in any way shape or form and would only hand eat waxworms, which was actually good for me since that was how I medicated them. Now he's taking crickets again but ONLY if I turn them loose in the cage AND do NOT take Shirley out, even though she gobbles everything in sight! He will just sit staring up at where I am holding her, or where she is sitting in a dish on Jelly's house. No one is going to convince me that it is impossible for frogs to develop attachments... it may be improbable, but I don't believe it is impossible. I've tried feeding Shirl in a dish, but she just snarfs everything up then exits to go after the loose ones. Honey refuses to bowl feed anymore. The weirdo! He doesn't want to take crickets by hand or tong either, though he will still take waxworms by hand. He also wakes up way later than Shirley, which is a pain in the butt, so I feel for what you are going through! The three finally have cleared fecal tests, so I know that's not the issue. Martha and Lucy still need to be treated for strongyloides, though, and are off their feed too; I hate waiting to treat them this long, but with the cold I have I am in no condition to force meds down a frogs gullet. They don't take waxworms, with or without tong feeding, so that's where I'm stuck in the medicating, bleh.

Have you fecal tested your guys lately?

[elly]

I haven't fecal tested lately but all the poop is well formed.

Hmm, maybe Honey wants to mate? Not much, since he wasn't cold cycled but maybe the spring is getting to him a little.

Bonk's behavior is weird. Bonk's behavior has always been weird. For the last two days he's removed himself to the ledge and slept there. Lucky for me, since I could give him crickets where Julep couldn't see. (Usually. Julep spotted a dubia and snagged it in a single bound from across the tank.) Bonk will eat, but he stops at one or two bugs a day and he doesn't like to go after food if I'm watching him.

To make it worse I've been having to go away on weekends for 2-3 days. I have someone change the water, but I can't ask them to feed the frogs.

[LilyPad]

They can go a weekend without eating, no problem. You could also leave a couple of crickets in a bowl (so they can't wander to bite) right before you leave...if they're anything like my greys though, they won't wait until you're gone to eat them LOL.

[Frogman1031]

Has he been pooping lately? With two or more frogs in one tank its near impossible to tell who's poop it is. I would recommend getting a fecal done as well. My male sometimes refuses food in what I like to call "mood swings" but somehow manages to stay fatter than the female who eats everything. He's usually back to normal (by that I mean lazy but not lethargic) within a couple days. Although I think that your frog might just not want to move during the day. After all, if someone brought my dinner at 2 am I wouldn't want to get up. How is the temperature in the enclosure? Humidity?

[elly]

Our frogs may have the same thing going on. Bonk certainly doesn't look underweight.

He's stayed up there during the day and most of the night too. He did switch places with the little frog to soak though. (Thanks, insomnia.)

Temp is 80-75, humidity is 60%

[elly]

@Amy, yeah, I know they can survive three days, maybe a month at most, I'm just concerned that if Bonk doesn't eat well during the week or after he might have low energy and have trouble catching bugs.

I normally leave a cricket behind...which I'm sure the little frog gobbles down as soon as my back has turned. He's the greediest thing ever.

[irThumper]

I know this is a stretch but could you leave the little guy in a QT tank while you are gone? That way Bonk can have his bowl of bugs, and the little one can have his, and you know when you get back how many each has or hasn't eaten while you're gone?

[flybyferns]

Elly

Good Morning, ( I think ? ...we got another 5 " of snow here on Long Island - yuck)
I read back. It's early! Before the coffee was done I was having difficulty ......mixing elly and Eli

Seriously

I would suggest getting a new thermometer or 2.

I have never had a whites tree frog. I have had my share of Agalychnis, however.
I have a A moreletti "Boggy" who went on a hunger strike for almost 6 months.
So bad , It resulted in my becoming very proficient at force feeding.

I still believe... to this day ... that his hunger strike resulted from my moving him from a tank he shared ( yes shared ) with the red eyed tree frogs.
It was like a froggy depression? Yeah, it sound crazy. But I'm convinced.

I'm wondering if tanks were changed or did your Whites loose or change a tank mate?

Want to remind you about feeding him if you should catch him shedding.
Drop the dusted crick in when he opens his mouth.
This really does....... work like a charm.

Temps... check your thermometer (s) Perhaps get a new one?
Physiologically, they will not eat and /or eat much less if their body temp has dropped.
So, having-said-that, you need to be careful w/ force feeding if his body temp is lowered.

Have you tried warming him up? Sometimes it's so simple Like when the light won't come on.... and - then - you realize it's unplugged !

Just a few thoughts

[flybyferns]

Elly

Good Morning, ( I think ? ...we got another 5 " of snow here on Long Island - yuck)
I read back. It's early! Before the coffee was done I was having difficulty ......mixing elly and Eli

Seriously

I would suggest getting a new thermometer or 2.

I have never had a whites tree frog. I have had my share of Agalychnis, however.
I have a A moreletti "Boggy" who went on a hunger strike for almost 6 months.
So bad , It resulted in my becoming very proficient at force feeding.

I still believe... to this day ... that his hunger strike resulted from my moving him from a tank he shared ( yes shared ) with the red eyed tree frogs.
It was like a froggy depression? Yeah, it sound crazy. But I'm convinced.

I'm wondering if tanks were changed or did your Whites loose or change a tank mate?

Want to remind you about feeding him if you should catch him shedding.
Drop the dusted crick in when he opens his mouth.
This really does....... work like a charm.

Temps... check your thermometer (s) Perhaps get a new one?
Physiologically, they will not eat and /or eat much less if their body temp has dropped.
So, having-said-that, you need to be careful w/ force feeding if his body temp is lowered.

Have you tried warming him up? Sometimes it's so simple Like when the light won't come on.... and then ---- you realize it's unplugged !

Just a few thoughts

[elly]

@irThumper: Good, common sense answer! Luckily Bonk was willing to eat about four medium size dubia last night so I think he's set for the weekend. I may leave Julep in quarantine if Bonk doesn't get much next week though.

@Lynn: I wish I could send some spring your way.

Bonk hasn't lost a tank-mate, not recently. He was in a Petco tank with other frogs back in September, but he didn't show any ill effects from leaving. He's always been a little skittish. I think part of his slowness to eat comes from being tong-fed a red wriggler once. He's never trusted me since.
I will get a second thermometer. Bonk's been warming himself up by sitting on the ledge directly underneath the heat emitter so maybe the rest of the tank gets a little cold.

[irThumper]

@irThumper: Good, common sense answer! Luckily Bonk was willing to eat about four medium size dubia last night so I think he's set for the weekend. I may leave Julep in quarantine if Bonk doesn't get much next week though.

@Lynn: I wish I could send some spring your way.

Bonk hasn't lost a tank-mate, not recently. He was in a Petco tank with other frogs back in September, but he didn't show any ill effects from leaving. He's always been a little skittish. I think part of his slowness to eat comes from being tong-fed a red wriggler once. He's never trusted me since.
I will get a second thermometer. Bonk's been warming himself up by sitting on the ledge directly underneath the heat emitter so maybe the rest of the tank gets a little cold.

Good Bonk! I was going to say his heat/humidity sounds fine for a WTF. Yeah might be a good idea to divide them up over the weekend, just to even the playing field. How long have you had them in together? Had Bonk showed this behavior prior to Julep moving in with him? Lucy is only eating one or two cricks at a time when she eats, I'm sure it's the parasites making her lose her appetite so that's another idea, in case he caught something from Julep... (didn't remember if Julep was fecal tested?)

I think breeding season must have had something to do with it for Honey. What's interesting is his lack appetite seems to correspond with the same time Shirley had that bloody dump of whatever... still think it was ova. I never saw the two of them try to breed, though Honey obviously was mature enough too, and Shirley too. There just wasn't a decent place to do so. He's just changed so much since then in what he wants to eat and how he wants to eat it. Still hates his vitamins... lol.

[elly]

Before he was put in with Julep, Bonk usually wouldn't eat unless the lights were turned out. Afterwards he started being bolder, even tweezer feeding again. But now he's gone back to his old ways. (I assume he may be constipated since after the weekend he still looked plump while Julep looked a little skinnier.)

I thought Julep looked and acted too healthy to have parasites but I might have to fecal test after all.

Good luck getting yours to take their vitamins.

[irThumper]

Before he was put in with Julep, Bonk usually wouldn't eat unless the lights were turned out. Afterwards he started being bolder, even tweezer feeding again. But now he's gone back to his old ways. (I assume he may be constipated since after the weekend he still looked plump while Julep looked a little skinnier.)

I thought Julep looked and acted too healthy to have parasites but I might have to fecal test after all.

Good luck getting yours to take their vitamins.

Yup, always pays to get a fecal done when something odd is going on, just in case.

Thanks, yeah yhe's been a pill about it, but I can usually at least get a couple dusted wax worms into him before he refuses more :P

[elly]

Last night after two weeks of only occasionally taking a bug, he actually started hunting again. I put a cricket on his ledge and he jumped all the way across the tank to get it. (And slammed face-first into the glass, poor baby.)

Frogs are weird.

I'm completely unable to tell his body size. He has small ear-folds, but when he stretches way out he looks alarmingly skinny, spine sunken in and all. When he's not stretched he looks normally chubby.