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Thread: White's tree frog sick?

  1. #1
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    Question White's tree frog sick?

    I'm a bit worried that my whites tree frog Steve might be sick. I bought he and his brother from Petco just under two weeks ago and his brother has started growing already but Steve hasn't grown any bigger. Then starting last night Steve started opening and closing his mouth frequently with a little popping sound (sounded like when a bubble pops). It wasn't the big yawning type thing that I've seen James do when he sheds, Steve isn't opening his jaw that wide. He was a little less interested in his crickets last night too. He ate two of them when I tong fed him, but wasn't interested in going over to hunt for them. Today I gave him a honey bath and he was shedding while he was in the bath, so I don't know if that's his only problem but I read that respiratory infections can cause a clicking/popping sound so I want to make sure it's nothing serious. I did hold him up to my ear and didn't hear any wheezing or labored breathing. I'm planning to call the vet tomorrow morning (she isn't in on Sundays) but I was hoping to get some help from you guys too. Am I just an overreacting new frog parent or does this sound serious?

    Here's all my info:

    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species) White's Tree Frog (Australian)

    2----please include a photo of the frog


    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure

    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" ) 20x10x12 (10 gallon quarantine) with metal screen top
    5----# on inhabitants 2 WTFs. They are from the same shipment but James has grown a little bigger than Steve
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mates Other WTFs at Petco, but none since I got him
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined Both are in quarantine right now (I got them just under 2 weeks ago)
    8----what is the typical humidity level 40-65 but I have had it get higher a few times over night
    9----what temperature is maintained 80-86 during the day, 70-73 during the night
    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure Incandescent heat lamp, 75 watts but on a dimmer
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically) regular incandescent heat bulb during day, nighttime bulb (very dim) at night
    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc ) Water bowl changed daily plus extra changes if they poop in it. Paper towel substrate changed every other day. Glass wiped down with distilled water.
    13---what kind of water is used tap water with TetraFauna AquaSafe dechlorinator
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific nonprinted paper towels (two layers)
    15---enclosure set up: one silk plant and one plastic plant, fake rock structure (all aquarium safe items). No background materials inside of tank, but three sides are covered with dark felt on the outside of the glass.
    16---when is the last time the frog ate Last night
    17---have you found poop lately Yes.
    18---how often is the frog fed Daily
    19---what size feeder is given Small Petsmart crickets or medium Petco crickets
    20---what other feeders are used as treats None for Steve
    21---what is the frog's main food source Crickets
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed Bowl or tong fed. No free roaming crickets
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often Exoterra multivitamin once a week
    24---calcium - what brand and how often RepCal calcium + D3 daily except on multivitamin day
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time Not since I've had him. Possibly for the week or so that he was at Petco
    26---approximate age of the frog Don't know but young. I just got him at the beginning of the month and he's about 1.5" SVL
    27---how long have you owned the frog Tomorrow will be two weeks
    28---who cared for the frog before you Petco
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred Captive Bred
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves ) Not handled regularly, just to give him a honey bath today and check his breathing. Blue nitrile medical gloves used.
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area Low
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no) Being quarantined now, fecal test was negative for parasites
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication: No. I gave him a honey bath today but no other treatment.

    Thank you in advance for any help you can give!

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    Well the video quality is terrible but you can see him opening his mouth once in this video. He's been doing it a few times in a row but I could only capture the once.

    http://vid10.photobucket.com/albums/...psosqffi1r.mp4

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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    Well, everything sounds pretty good, actually. I use that kind of gauge myself, on the outside of the tanks now, but have also used it on the inside... watch out because if it gets water in it the digital readout will get wiped out!

    Too bad that vid was so brief... can you describe what his sides are doing when he opens his mouth and makes those popping sounds? I noticed in the side pic his sides just look strange, sort of like they do when a frog is swallowing a feeder. I'm wondering if he's getting overheated/drier during the day... I think I'd put a lower wattage bulb on them, even if it's on a dimmer. Try a 40 or 60 watt blue daytime heat bulb and a red 40 or 60 watt red heat bulb at night. 40-65% is good as far as the humidity goes, you don't want it higher for extensive periods of time though. Did he seem to shed completely? I'm wondering if he's getting stuck in a shed... my Jelly Bean was taking multiple days to complete a shed for a while, spending a lot of time in the water dish and going through the process, I'm sure it was tiring! He never seemed to get off his feed though, and I never heard him make any popping sounds during that time. I have heard the frogs make a few of these sounds after eating a big meal, though, but it was just briefly while they were swallowing.
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    I was able to get some better videos

    http://vid10.photobucket.com/albums/...ps08s9ibbr.mp4

    http://vid10.photobucket.com/albums/...psekggn8yz.mp4

    It definitely didn't seem like a full shed during his bath. It was more like strips/patches of skin that came off in the water and there was still some more loose skin around his legs and neck after I put him back in his tank. He hasn't gone completely off his food; he just didn't go to the bowl himself last night (so I tong fed) but tonight he did eat normally. His sides did look strange earlier (like you noticed in the side pic) but are back to normal now.

    I'm wondering if this is a difficult incomplete shed and he's just trying to swallow skin when it isn't ready? If that is the case, will honey baths help? Or pedialyte baths? Or do we just have to wait it out?

    I can certainly switch out the bulb to a lower wattage one. I do have the lamp on one side of the tank (where the temp gauge is) so there is a slightly cooler side to escape to until I put in the new bulb.

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    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    It could very well be a stuck shed from the sound of it. I'd make sure the water dish is in the cool spot too, and not directly under the lamp. Honey baths are more for constipation (did you be sure to give him a rinse bath afterwards?) If he's eating I wouldn't worry about a honey or Pedialyte bath for now, just be sure to maintain humidity levels where they are and dial the heat down a bit (77-80F daytime is fine) 73-75 nighttime is where we maintain our guys and they do fine with that. I might suggest you get a hide for them that they can actually get into as well. A simple white PVC plumbing connector (for potable water) is Shirley and Honey-Limes new daytime hideout and they love it! You can easily find the connectors at any hardware store that sells plumbing fixtures for larger applications.

    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    Thank you so much for all your help! Steve is doing wonderful today! He hasn't been opening his mouth at all today, plus he's active, hungry, and pooping (You know you're an animal lover when you get really excited to see frog poop!) Luckily it looks like all my worrying was just overreacting and it was just a shedding issue that seems to have resolved on its own.

    I've turned down the temp today and will replace with lower watt bulbs tomorrow. I had been going off of the Whites Tree Frog care sheet in the articles section which recommended 85 F daytime temps. I'll stick with the lower temps now though, plus I put in a hide for them (which they have so far ignored, but at least it's there if they want it.

    I did the honey bath initially just because I wasn't sure what exactly the problem was, and he did get a plain water soak afterwards.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    Hey, has it seen a vet yet? Sometimes these frogs can recover a little to hide their symptoms but then they return all over again.. If you haven't gotten it checked yet I suggest you book an appointment just to be sure everything is fine.

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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    Yes I did bring Steve to the vet. The doctor said it was a mild infection and put him on a course of baytril injections.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    Might be why he was having issues with his shedding... How's he doing? Back to normal I hope?

    Strange he would give him Baytril injections for a MILD infection... why not topically?
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    Steve does seem like he's healthy now. Still not quite a voracious eater but that might be because he's still upset about all the handling. Or he's just not quite the pig James is!

    I'm not sure why she gave me injections rather than topical. The topical sure would have been easier!

  12. #11
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's tree frog sick?

    That's for sure! I just learned the same thing about Ivomec/ivermectin and frogs from Lija. No need to feed medicated worms, or force feed invermectin in oral form, when you can get the topical form and just use it on the outside of them... lol I know better for next time Not that I want to have a next time... parasites, guh!!!
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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