Question/Concerns for an Aspiring White's Dumpy Tree Frog Owner

[trkent]

Hello! I'm a new user to this forum. I've never owned frogs (my mom owned some Fire Belly Toads when I was younger) but other than that I've had no prior experience with these loveable creatures. So as a newbie I have some questions that I hope you guys can answer!I recently received a gift of a 15 gallon terrarium with plenty of climbing room! I have a hydrometer, thermometer, heating pad for under the tank, a warming lamp, the works...First of all and really the most important in my opinion. The substrate. I received coconut fiber substrate. I've been reading mixed reviews on the stuff so I thought I'd come to a reliable source. Impaction is my worst fear. I don't want to be a new frog owner and have the little fellow die on me. So... is it safe? Insects will be prone to hide from being eaten so I don't want them to eat it and for it to harm them. Alternatively - what substrate would you recommend? I think impaction is my worst fear about this whole process.Secondly, I have a 50w Daylight Basking light. I don't think the bulb is appropriate for a Dumpy. From what I understand it's more for reptiles? Would this light do? Or should I go for something less? More? I also read that I should get the fellow a red or blue light to use at night to provide heat but doesn't let them think it's still day time. Any advice?Are there any other tricks/tips/advice that you would have to offer a new frog owner about my frog?Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate all the help and I hope to learn a lot from this forum and hopefully help others!

[Frogger00]

Welcome to frogforum! Coconut fiber substrate is fairly digestible and shouldn't cause impaction problems. The only complaint I have about it is that it's very messy. Alternatively, paper towel would be a good substrate if you are worried about impaction. Usually if the substrate is coconut based, it is safe.

That light sounds fine to me. As long as it is heating the cage to 75-85f, then it will work. You will need an alternative light for nighttime. If your house doesn't fall below 75f at night, then you don't need supplemental heat at night. If it does, then I would look into a blue or red light.

Always buy from a responsible breeder. If you buy from a big chain petstore, there is a huge possibility that the frog will have parasites.

A 15 gallon terrarium will do for now, but you may want to look into upgrading to a 30 gallon for future. When it comes to tree frogs, you can never give them enough space!


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[trkent]

Welcome to frogforum! Coconut fiber substrate is fairly digestible and shouldn't cause impaction problems. The only complaint I have about it is that it's very messy. Alternatively, paper towel would be a good substrate if you are worried about impaction. Usually if the substrate is coconut based, it is safe.

That light sounds fine to me. As long as it is heating the cage to 75-85f, then it will work. You will need an alternative light for nighttime. If your house doesn't fall below 75f at night, then you don't need supplemental heat at night. If it does, then I would look into a blue or red light.

Always buy from a responsible breeder. If you buy from a big chain petstore, there is a huge possibility that the frog will have parasites.

A 15 gallon terrarium will do for now, but you may want to look into upgrading to a 30 gallon for future. When it comes to tree frogs, you can never give them enough space!


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Thank you so much!

I'm thinking about an alternative. Aesthetically, paper towel seems ugly and such a waste of trees haha. I'm a bit of an eco freak when it comes to stuff like that. Which leads me to another question. Can coconut fiber be used for composting when it's done being used? Are there any other safe alternatives you can think of other than this substrate? Is there anyone here that has had horror stories or bad experiences with coconut fiber?

I've tested the light and it seems to heat up very fast. Went up about 10 degrees (to 80 degrees from my room temp.) in less than 5 minutes. Just thought it might be too powerful. Don't wanna bake the guy! I suppose as long as I'm adamant on watching the temp. all will be okay. And I will certainly look into a "night light" for them.

And yes! I figured they'd need something to grow into. I planned on getting something bigger after a while and then passing this tank down to a different breed.

Thank you so much for all your help! I feel a bit more confident now.

[Frogger00]

Thank you so much!

I'm thinking about an alternative. Aesthetically, paper towel seems ugly and such a waste of trees haha. I'm a bit of an eco freak when it comes to stuff like that. Which leads me to another question. Can coconut fiber be used for composting when it's done being used? Are there any other safe alternatives you can think of other than this substrate? Is there anyone here that has had horror stories or bad experiences with coconut fiber?

I've tested the light and it seems to heat up very fast. Went up about 10 degrees (to 80 degrees from my room temp.) in less than 5 minutes. Just thought it might be too powerful. Don't wanna bake the guy! I suppose as long as I'm adamant on watching the temp. all will be okay. And I will certainly look into a "night light" for them.

And yes! I figured they'd need something to grow into. I planned on getting something bigger after a while and then passing this tank down to a different breed.

Thank you so much for all your help! I feel a bit more confident now.

Paper towel is ugly lol. Big river rocks and stones are a safe choice. They look nice and as long as they are bigger than the frogs mouth, safe.

If the light does get too hot, you can always buy a lamp dimmer so you can adjust the amount of heat that comes out.

Good luck!


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[trkent]

Paper towel is ugly lol. Big river rocks and stones are a safe choice. They look nice and as long as they are bigger than the frogs mouth, safe.

If the light does get too hot, you can always buy a lamp dimmer so you can adjust the amount of heat that comes out.

Good luck!


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Thanks again. I'll certainly look into some large river rock/stones. Perhaps a mixture of the two?

On a side note going back to an older thing you stated... Do you perhaps know of any reliable sources to purchase said frog? I've been looking at ReptMart (have heard a couple bad things...) or Big Apple Pet Supply. Where do you get your frogs?

[Crispy42]

The coco fiber should be fine to compost. Just keep in mind that if your frog needs medication, them that "batch" of substrate might not be a great candidate for composting because it will have some traces of the medication.

If you're worried about impaction, I would look into bowl feeding your frog. Just get a smooth-sided bowl with sides about 2" tall and the crickets won't climb out. That way the frog isn't feeding on top of substrate.

As far as not wanting to waste substrate materials, you might want to look into constructing a living vivarium. You just need a drainage layer of clay aggregate or a constructed false bottom, then a thick layer of ABG mix or similar substrate. You can top this with leaf litter to Eddie impaction concerns. The addition of springtails and isopods gives you a clean up crew that breaks frog waste down into fertilizer for live plants. It's like a mini ecosystem that doesn't require substrate changes, so there will be very little ecological impact.

[Snappi13]

I personally use repti carpet for my substrate because my frogs don't like the way the coco fiber sticks to them, they try and wipe it off. I sometimes will use leaf litter on top of the carpet aswell for a more natural feel. I also have places for the frogs to get off the carpet. The carpet is fairly absorbent and will help retain water for added humidity. If this is not enough you can alway install a fogger. As for the lighting I use different watt bulbs depending on the time of year. Along with a uth to keep the floor of the tank a bit warm.( this does not really raise the internal tempt the tank) I hope this answers some of your questions. Happy frogging.


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[trkent]

The coco fiber should be fine to compost. Just keep in mind that if your frog needs medication, them that "batch" of substrate might not be a great candidate for composting because it will have some traces of the medication.

If you're worried about impaction, I would look into bowl feeding your frog. Just get a smooth-sided bowl with sides about 2" tall and the crickets won't climb out. That way the frog isn't feeding on top of substrate.

As far as not wanting to waste substrate materials, you might want to look into constructing a living vivarium. You just need a drainage layer of clay aggregate or a constructed false bottom, then a thick layer of ABG mix or similar substrate. You can top this with leaf litter to Eddie impaction concerns. The addition of springtails and isopods gives you a clean up crew that breaks frog waste down into fertilizer for live plants. It's like a mini ecosystem that doesn't require substrate changes, so there will be very little ecological impact.

Wow! I am completely impressed! That's brilliant. Definitely a project I'm going to take on in the future.

Also, wouldn't the crickets hop out of the feeding bowl? Which leads me to another question...haha... how often is it okay to change the fellow's diet? Perhaps I'll just do worms in a bowl. But what if I wanted to give them some crickets?

Really, thanks so much guys. I never expected to get so much help!

[Snappi13]

With frogs the more variety the better. Just don't over do the food with excessive fat like the wax worms. Feeders like wax worms should be used as a treat. Dubia roaches are great feeders and pretty nutritious. I don't like he idea of roaches personally I use mainly crickets and the occasional wax worm. My frogs didn't like the earth worms but those are also good feeders. Stay away from red worms as the frogs typically don't like the taste and often will refuse other worms after a experience like that.


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[trkent]

With frogs the more variety the better. Just don't over do the food with excessive fat like the wax worms. Feeders like wax worms should be used as a treat. Dubia roaches are great feeders and pretty nutritious. I don't like he idea of roaches personally I use mainly crickets and the occasional wax worm. My frogs didn't like the earth worms but those are also good feeders. Stay away from red worms as the frogs typically don't like the taste and often will refuse other worms after a experience like that.


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Thanks!! Duly noted! I'm getting great stuff here. Thank you all for your help so very much!

[Frogger00]

With frogs the more variety the better. Just don't over do the food with excessive fat like the wax worms. Feeders like wax worms should be used as a treat. Dubia roaches are great feeders and pretty nutritious. I don't like he idea of roaches personally I use mainly crickets and the occasional wax worm. My frogs didn't like the earth worms but those are also good feeders. Stay away from red worms as the frogs typically don't like the taste and often will refuse other worms after a experience like that.


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Agreed! My one frog is obsessed with mealworms, but my other frog has always loved his crickets if the frog is big enough, an occasional pinky mouse is a good source of calcium for the frog.

On a side note- does anyone know where to get Dubia roaches in Canada?


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[deranged chipmunk]

On a side note- does anyone know where to get Dubia roaches in Canada?


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no where. they are on the naughty list.

[Crispy42]

Wow! I am completely impressed! That's brilliant. Definitely a project I'm going to take on in the future.

Also, wouldn't the crickets hop out of the feeding bowl? Which leads me to another question...haha... how often is it okay to change the fellow's diet? Perhaps I'll just do worms in a bowl. But what if I wanted to give them some crickets?

Really, thanks so much guys. I never expected to get so much help!

Amazingly the crickets will very rarely get out of the bowl. If they can't climb out it doesn't seem to occur to them to jump. I guess they aren't the brightest creatures! Every once in a while one will get scared enough to jump out or will climb out by using your frog as a ladder, but that's pretty rare.

Earthworms are better escapists but are easy to tong/hand feed (just make sure they're small enough or cut up to be edible size)

[Frogger00]

no where. they are on the naughty list.

Ah. I figured, I haven't seen them anywhere.


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[Frogger00]

Amazingly the crickets will very rarely get out of the bowl. If they can't climb out it doesn't seem to occur to them to jump. I guess they aren't the brightest creatures! Every once in a while one will get scared enough to jump out or will climb out by using your frog as a ladder, but that's pretty rare.

Earthworms are better escapists but are easy to tong/hand feed (just make sure they're small enough or cut up to be edible size)

Another thing I've heard of doing is putting some clear plasticy tape around the edges of the bowl. That way it is too slippery for them to climb out. And yes, they don't jump out much.


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[trkent]

Another thing I've heard of doing is putting some clear plasticy tape around the edges of the bowl. That way it is too slippery for them to climb out. And yes, they don't jump out much.


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I'll be sure to try this! I wouldn't want to have to take them out every time and place them elsewhere to feed them. Seems stressful.

One more question - can anyone give me a reliable source to order my White's Tree Frog? I'm iff-y about buying from a major pet store.

[Lija]

Hi, I haven't welcomed you here welcome!

you got good tips so far

to add to what was said - coco fiber is the best out there, as long as it fine, Exo earth is the finest, plantation soil is the second best, but both are fine. Neither would contribute to impaction.

and in general I must say, good for you, you are thinking, asking questions ahead of time, well before getting a frog! You have my respect for sure... Saying someone who not once did an impulse buy lol

anyhow. Re plastic tape or any tape inside the enclosure... There is nothing worse then taking it out from reptile......it is nightmare to take it out the frog, in many many cases impossible due to their skin structure and the on,y way is to euthanize a frog. You do not want any types of tape anywhere near your enclosure. Only for outside if needed. Never inside.

You should be able to tong feed them, this way you know exactly what goes in and how try different things, but tong trained frog is so much easier to deal with in veterinary situations if any arise, less stressful for a frog to feed meds if ever need to, etc.

as for source - shows or reliable online stores are the best bet, but even then plan on setting up a quarantine for your new frog, do a fecal testing, observe pooping and eating before you transfer the guy into his permanent home.

[trkent]

Hi, I haven't welcomed you here welcome!

you got good tips so far

to add to what was said - coco fiber is the best out there, as long as it fine, Exo earth is the finest, plantation soil is the second best, but both are fine. Neither would contribute to impaction.

and in general I must say, good for you, you are thinking, asking questions ahead of time, well before getting a frog! You have my respect for sure... Saying someone who not once did an impulse buy lol

anyhow. Re plastic tape or any tape inside the enclosure... There is nothing worse then taking it out from reptile......it is nightmare to take it out the frog, in many many cases impossible due to their skin structure and the on,y way is to euthanize a frog. You do not want any types of tape anywhere near your enclosure. Only for outside if needed. Never inside.

You should be able to tong feed them, this way you know exactly what goes in and how try different things, but tong trained frog is so much easier to deal with in veterinary situations if any arise, less stressful for a frog to feed meds if ever need to, etc.

as for source - shows or reliable online stores are the best bet, but even then plan on setting up a quarantine for your new frog, do a fecal testing, observe pooping and eating before you transfer the guy into his permanent home.

Thank you very much for the invites!

Yes, I've been doing as much research as possible for my future friend. The very last thing I wanna do is make a mistake that could use them their life, ya know?
I'm an aspiring veterinary technician so this all helps me in more ways than one. I have a huge respect for animals. <3

I never considered tong feeding before! I really like that idea. I'm certainly going to give it a try. Yes, it would probably make it easier for medicine feeding if I ever had to in the future.

More specifically though... I was hoping to get a link where I could order said frog? It's kinda hard to know who is reliable and not. But thank you so much for your advice!

[Lija]

We need US people here!

id say lll reptile, Josh frogs would be my picks.

For meds - if frog is tong trained he'd eat anything food looking like that, including worm with meds on it or ball of food with meds or fingers lol He'd eat without realizing what is it. No stress = better prognosis.
now if a frog not tong fed, the only way to get stuff in a proper dosage in is to force feed, each time! it's very stressful for everybody involved and more stress? That's right - not so good

the chances are you will never need to do any of that, I hope you won't, but stuff happens.
whites are pretty hardy as long as their basic needs are met, they can tolerate variety of conditions.

[irThumper]

Hi Trkent! Welcome to FrogForum I agree with everything Lija has said, and I agree with the other posts in this thread that Lija agrees with... lol! I did get your PM and will be replying to it in detail tomorrow morning Thanks for writing!