Problem with some squirrel Frogs.

[Iceni]

Hello people, I'm in search of some advice about squirrel frog.

Firstly I'd like to say I have a dumpy, and 2 fire bellys. They have been happily housed for a few months now with no problems at all. I'm not a frog expert But the Squirrels were recommended as a good step up to the final Poison darts i wish to keep in a few years.


Right, I got these frogs about 48 hours ago. I got 3 of them. They all looked healthy, The pet store got them in 7 days ago, they have been kept in the small container they were delivered in in the store. They have been fed and the pet store i got them from is one of the good pet stores where the shop is a mess because the guy spends all of his time looking after the animals rather than trying to keep things neat and tidy. He already has a house full of frogs fish and lizards so i have every confidence in his ability with these animals.

Anyway. I placed the three frogs in a small terrarium. The frogs are only small less than 1 inch in length so i wanted them in a smaller terrarium until they were at a size where i was confident they could find there food. The terrarium was set-up with a water bowl 2 inches deep filled with stones so the water was at a depth of less than 1/2 an inch at it's deepest points. There is no substrate in the tank. And there is a brand new synthetic plant in there as well.

Everything was washed before it went in in tap water, Including the tank, it's a 12x8x8 tank as a starter tank for them. Everything was then dried.

The water used in the tank after the initial cleaning had been left to stand for over 24 hours. Same in the same way i treat the water for the Dumpy firebellys and my fish to remove chlorine ect.

Anyhow, Within 36 hours 2 of the squirrels have died. 1 is still going strong. I can see no reason why these frogs should have died so early. There was no substrate to cause impaction, Either in my set-up or in the store container. The tank i used was clean Unused and washed. And the water was dechlorinated. I've fed them once with number 1 crickets ( very small just turning from clear).


The only thing i can think of that i might have done that has caused them to die is either stress or there is release agent still on the leaves of the Plant. Has anyone got any knowledge of this. If there is a silicone based contaminant on the plant how would i go about removing it. If it is suspected to be something else please tell me.



A brief note on the pet store, He will never receive an animal through the post. Or post an animal to a new owner, He makes all his animal collections in person, Or meets the breeders half way. All of his animals are healthy when sold. But even still a healthy frog should live for a few weeks at least before it dies of starvation. And i know this is not the case as i saw all 3 eating the first night i got them.


None of the Frogs were handled either. I placed there travel container into the New terrarium, and took the lid off. I did now want to risk anything with them.

Any advice is warmly welcomed


and here's a piccie of lardie my dumpy just for your pleasure. (Note there is no subtrate in his tank now, it was messy and he always spent more time in the jungle plants i got for him!)

[daydreaming]

what was the temp of the tank?

what was the humidity level?

are you sure that when you cleaned the tank all of the cleaning product was washed out as well?

was there any signs of stress? if they had been kept in the same container for 7 days maybe it was too much exposure for them.

otherwise there are still a few reasons why but maybe the frogs were just not as healthy as they had appeared to be.

also if the shop is dirty and unclean because he spends so much time looking after his animals what about cross contamination, dust. i do understand what you mean, but a less clean shop dosent always mean healthy animals.

[Iceni]

No the shop is very clean, It just looks like a mess! he stacks empty tanks in a corner, has limited storage space ect. But all of his animals are spot on. He doesn't normally stock frogs, But he does keep them at home. I think he keeps albino clawed, Firebellys, and a packman.



Temps could be an issue, I Keep my whites and these frogs on top of the fridge, The whites tank is normally between 21 and 26 degrees. But on the hotter days it has been up to 28 degrees.

The tanks is a sealed tank. with small vents in the top. It's actually a converted fish tank, with a black plastic canopy, The humidity levels upon them been added to the tank were very high, I gave the tank a full 1/2 litre of misting before the frogs were introduced, and they received more misting later that evening. There is enough humidity to cause full condensation in the tank when the evening temps drop.


As for the stress I'm thinking it could be a factor. It's hard to tell if a nocturnal animal is stressed in a shop as there normally sleeping in opening hours. I'm just wanting to be 100% sure I'm not doing anything grossly incorrect before I take this back to the shop.

[Kurt]

The tanks is a sealed tank. with small vents in the top. It's actually a converted fish tank, with a black plastic canopy, The humidity levels upon them been added to the tank were very high, I gave the tank a full 1/2 litre of misting before the frogs were introduced, and they received more misting later that evening. There is enough humidity to cause full condensation in the tank when the evening temps drop.

Treefrogs require good ventalation and this set-up does not appear to provide that. Also, you mentioned they had been kept in small containers that they had arrived in at the store. I assume we are talking about dehli cups, which also do not provide much ventalation. In my experience, treefrogs that are kept enclosures without proper ventalation have a tendency to wither away and die. This usually takes more than a week to happen.
I am guessing that stress, along with poor ventalation, and quite possibly an increased gastrointestinal parasite load due to the previously mentioned conditions, may have killed these frogs, but I can't say for sure. I would've had to observe them or examine them to be certain. Just FYI squirrel treefrogs, Hyla squirrela are wild caught, which would play into what I had just mentioned.

[John]

It's a tough one to guess what's going on here. Kurt may be right, and Daydreaming may be right too - both are equally likely. Another possibility is that they picked a disease at the pet store and you taking them home was the final nail in the coffin.

In any case, sorry for your loss - Squirrels are a nice little frog. I hope the last one makes it for you.

[Iceni]

Yeah that probably makes sense. I'll go in and have a word with the store owner and see if he can come up with a solution. chances are he will be able to have a word with the supplier and get the facts for me!

I'm almost certain these frogs haven't gotten a disease from the store, they were keps well away from the other frogs. The small container may well have been the problem tho, The first thing they did upon been relesed into the bigger tank was jump arround like looneys. They didn't seem to settle for about 45 minutes, i was fully expecting them to stay asleep and explore later.

[daydreaming]

also be aware that is your existing frogs have had any contact with the new frogs you may have a problem with your existing frogs esp if there was an underlined illness.

i would also say the vibrations from the fridge may not be such a good thing either they do normally prefer quiet areas. i keep my 3 wtf away from anything that invloves too much vibration. i know in the uk we have to dispose of fridges/freezers properly as they can give off chemicals and they do tend to be very hot where the pipes are.