Sick Whites tree frog

[jforce]

QUESTIONS

1----what 'kind' of frog isit (what species) Whites tree frog
2----please include a photoof the frog
3----Please include a photoof the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure (W" x D" x H" ) 15gallons, tall, not sure exact dimensions
5----# on inhabitants - (if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? ) 1 frog
6----has or was the frogkept with a different species or with any other tank mate No
7----is there a new tankmate----was the new tank mate quarantined No
8----what is the typicalhumidity level ~50%, misting system used
9----what temperature ismaintained ~70-75
10---what is, specifically,being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure Average temperature in the house, plus a warming pad under terrarium
11---describe the enclosurelighting ( very specifically) Don’t knowspecifics..hand-me-down light
12---describe enclosuremaintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc) Wateris changed daily, droppings are removed upon notice, frequent substrate changed
13---what kind of water isused
-----for misting Tap
-----for the frog's soakingdish Tap
-----is de-chlorinator used/ what brand Aquatize Exo Terra (Ibelieve, I’m not at home right now so I can’t check)
14---material(s) used forsubstrate - be very specific Exo TerraCoconut Fiber
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describehow the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live orartificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric Plastic tree
-----describe wood, bark ,and background materials Decorativebackground image that came with the tank
16---when is the last timethe frog ate Two days ago
17---have you found pooplately No
18---how often is the frogfed Every other night
19---what size feeder isgiven Medium-large, depending on size
20---what other feeders areused as treats None
21---what is the frog'smain food source Crickets
22---do feeders roam freein the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed Bowlfed
23---vitamins - what brandand how often Calc/Vit D used once aweek
24---calcium - what brandand how often
25---was the frog withoutcalcium for any period of time Possiblyat the store (6 months ago)
26---approximate age of thefrog ~8 months
27---how long have youowned the frog 6 months
28---who cared for the frogbefore you PetCo
29---is the frog wildcaught or captive bred Captive
30---how often the frog ishandled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves) Once a day – to give medicine and soak
31---is the enclosure keptin a high or low traffic area Low
30---has or was the frogproperly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long He’s alone in his enclosure, enclosure wascleaned
32---has the frog beentreated with any medication:
-----for what Constipation, lethargy
-----name of medication Baytril (orally administered liquid
-----for how long A week and a half
-----what dose I believe it is .07 ml, given once a day
-----was medicationprescribed by a herp vet Exotics vet inOKC


I went ahead and answered most of the questions, but I’m not at home sosome of them may not be 100% accurate (regarding brands). I’ve had my whites,Hans, for about 6 months now. She has doubled in size since I got her andeverything seemed normal until about 2 or 3 weeks ago. She stopped bowelmovements but is eating fairly normally. She has also been very lethargic andspending most of her time either on the floor of her tank, resting on her feedingcontainer, or on in her water. This is unusual because she normally climbs thesides of her enclosure and hops around when handled. I took her to an exoticsvet (where I found out she was a girl!) and was told that she didn’t seem tohave any noticeable blockage in her abdomen, but they gave her ananti-parasitic treatment at the office and gave me Baytril oral antibiotics togive to her for 2 weeks. After a few days, she went back to her normal behaviorand had a very large poop but is now back to spending time toward the bottom. I’vetried holding her up to the tank walls but she cannot hold herself up. I’vesoaked her in warm water and tried gently rubbing her belly in addition to themedication, but I’m still worried. She’s back to not pooping and being verylazy. I’ve read many articles about other people having issues with theirwhites, but nothing quite like Hans. Her color is normal (I will try to postpictures) If anyone has had similar experience or may know what’s going on,please let me know.

jessica11405's Library | Photobucket

[Heatheranne]

Hi Jessica,

It sounds as though she is constipated or still has an infection. Could be both. Her right tummy has a bit of "fullness" in appearance. Does it feel full on the right side or like a bump? Is it nice and soft or hard?

She still looks good and hopefully can still recover.

Put her into a hospital tank with paper towels as flooring (changed daily), a water bowl with dechlorinated water (rinsed and water changed daily). Add a background to the outside back and 2 sides to help her feel safe. You may want to add a safe, smooth-edged plastic or artificial plant for her to hide under.

Warm up her tank to 80'F with one warmer basking corner of around 85'F and keep her humidity at around 70% for now, until she is better. You might have to mist more often or cover more of the top of the screen lid.

Try a honey soak tonight to see if you can get her to relieve the constipation. Use plain honey and dechlorinated water at approx 80'F (lukewarm). Have her soak for 15 minutes. Follow this soak with a plain lukewarm water soak in just dechlorinated water for another 15 minutes to rinse off any honey residue.

If you can, get some non-powdered medical gloves so you don't expose her to any excess germs (human germs) when you have to pick her up. Try to handle her as little as possible.

Do not feed her tonight. It will just add to the amount of feces in her intestines. We'll let her belly rest while we provide some sugar and fluid.

Pick up some plain, clear Pedialyte in the infant section at any store and some distilled water or spring water. Make her a 1:10 mix of 1 part Pedialyte to 10 parts water and give her a nice 15-20 minute soak. You can do this every other day for about 3 soaks. You can also drop the drops on her back of she's too weak to soak. Keep her nice and hydrated. This will help with rehydration and electrolytes. ***Start the Pedialyte soaks tomorrow so you don't overload her system with electrolytes.

I would call your vet today and let them know. They might want you to bring her in. They might need to add another medication or change what she is on now.

Did they say what parasite they were treating?

[irThumper]

Definitely up the tank temp, lower temperatures can cause digestion issues. Did the vet ever do a fecal test or are they just guessing on the treatment? Have you seen her shedding? Could be she is ingesting a lot of substrate and that's causing her to be stoved up. Pics of her enclosure would help. Did you take the frog to Brookwood? (I've had my frogs fecal tested thru the mail by one of their vets).

Hope your froggle gets back to normal soon, she's gorgeous!

[jforce]

Her belly is still very soft, and I don't feel much of a hard blockage of any sort. It was tough to get her to actually let me take a picture of her tummy-at least she's still a stubborn little thing. I removed all of her bedding and put in a reptile/amphibian carpet. I've also increased the amount of misting from the system. I've only given her one cricket within the last 3 days and I made sure to dust it. I didn't want to give her too much for her little belly to handle. She was semi willing to eat...it took her a while to actually go for it.

I'm definitely going to downsize the size of crickets I give her, but the ones I give her really aren't very big. I make sure not to feed her the ones that are bigger than the distance of her eyes. I will start the treated soaks tonight (the honey one at least..I'll have to go pick up Pedialyte later). The vet didnt tell me exactly what she was treating her for as far as the parasite goes. She just said it was an antiparasitic treatment. She is now at the point that she physically cannot hold herself up on the sides of her cage, even if I hold her up against the side.
Thank you so much for your suggestions. I really appreciate it. I'll post an update to see how she does...I just feel so bad for her. She's not herself anymore.

[jforce]

They weren't able to do a fecal test because I, being dumb, didn't think to save the one and only stool she had passed. I will work on the temperature issue, I have a spare light lying around somewhere! She has shed a few times, but not recently. If she is eating substrate, she's not doing it while eating because I feed her in a separate container. Shouldn't be an issue now though, I removed the bedding. I will try to post a picture of her enclosure when I am home.

I was going to take her to Brookwood because I've taken former pets there (I had a bearded dragon years ago), but the exotics vet was on vacation. I took her to Neel Veterinary Clinic, but I think I'm going to go ahead and swing by Brookwood either in the morning or on Friday. I will post updates.

I really appreciate responses and I really hope I'm replying to these correctly...I've never been a member of a forum before so I have no idea what I'm doing. I'll figure it out sooner or later.

[irThumper]

You're doing fine on the forum You'll get used to it as you go along.

Yeah, that makes me a bit nervous that a vet would just up and prescribe medication without a test to know what they are treating for, and Baytril can be pretty strong stuff, so is nothing to mess around with. I'd absolutely find out what parasite med she treated your frog with then go see if Dr. Stachmus is in at Brookwood. Wait for another poo from your frog after the honey bath-- mine had his H.bath for maybe 10 minutes Weds night, half the time recommended, but he jumped at a droplet that rolled down the dish (thought it was a bug I guess) then accidentally swallowed a gulp of water. He wanted to get out after that, so I didn't make him stay in; he ate two small crickets and I left him be. No poo this morning, or tonight, until after I fed him two teeny tiny waxworms rolled in Reptaboost powder, then he had a HUGE poo in his water dish. The lil guy has got to feel way better after that-- He hadn't gone in almost three weeks! After you get the poo seal it up in a ziplock baggy with the date and time in it, then put it in the fridge until you can get it to Brookwood asap.

Hope you get results from the honey bath for your frog, can get an accurate fecal test, and something to help her feel better

[Lija]

Agree with Lisa. Im questioning qualification of this vet. Fecal test should be first thing you do when you susspect parasites.

prescribed baytril is not antiparasitic medication, it is strong antibiotic. If you have an ability to go to the different vet, please ask if s/he is experienced with frogs. Otherwise send poop to the lab.

[flybyferns]

YES - the fecals are REALLY important.

I would start over and QT ( quarantine) the frog until you are sure it's well.
This is especially important when a Whites has NOT been purchased from a breeder.
http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...uarantine.html

< 9----what temperature ismaintained ~70-75 >
If this is the daytime temp---It's too low.
Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea

Sorry if I have duplicated any of the great advice and support you have been given thus far.

[irThumper]

How's your froggle doing, Jessica?

[jforce]

She did a tiny, and I mean TINY poo in her water dish. But that is better than nothing...I've never been happier to see poop in my life!! I've increased the temp in her tank by adding another light during the day, and I think I'm going to stop the Baytril. I didn't know that it was something that might be too strong for her Also she is holding her head up more and even jumping little jumps when I do her soaks. Fecal test is the next step until I can get her 100% normal.

[jforce]

Definitely switching vets! The preferred vet was on vacation so I sort of made a last resort trip to a different office...I can safely say I will not be going back. It's not really a good sign when the vet is doing just as much research before diagnosing as the pet owner did before bringing her in.

[irThumper]

Definitely switching vets! The preferred vet was on vacation so I sort of made a last resort trip to a different office...I can safely say I will not be going back. It's not really a good sign when the vet is doing just as much research before diagnosing as the pet owner did before bringing her in.

Oog... yes, that is the problem with trying to find vet help for our beloved froggles; most of the time the veterinarians don't know any more than we do! The thing I've found with our new vet is at least he's open minded and willing to learn and to contact more knowledgeable vets on a subject related to frogs if he has to. But for that vet you used to just up and guess and prescribe a medication without even doing a simple fecal exam... well that's a total red flag right there! I hope you will have better luck with the next vet. Glad your girl seems to be feeling better at least!