Questions!! Whites Tree Frog

[omgitsbekahxD]

I'm still figuring out how to use this forum and have just realized that you answered after my writing! You have been very helpful in all of your information.
It seems to me that I may have been overreacting and that Jeremy is doing fine for the most part (:

It is looking like he may just be constipated and I'm sure that would affect his eating. I decided on putting him in a 10 gallon tank for feeding, with moist paper towels and crickets only. I also took out the moss as I didn't know how could wind up swallowing it. I know he had crickets roaming his tank at the pet store so I think that I should keep it that way, rather than using a bowl or tongs since that's not what he is used to. After all, he is around a year old and has experienced quite a few changes!

How can I tell if he is active at night? The only evidence I know of is his water bowl having dirt in it. I have not seen him burrow since I last posted that he did, and he seems happier overall since his warm bath last night.

I'm glad to hear that his color changing is normal also, since his warm bath last night he has been climbing on his plants and has been a brighter green. I was going to do a honey bath tonight but I believe I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow. No feces in his tank that I saw, and I removed all of the crickets from his last feeding as well.

[irThumper]

Great! I'll be bringing a fecal sample to work then once I am able to obtain one (:
I had no idea that frogs could have the same thing as a cat or dog, although it makes sense, I just never thought about it.
Usually worms cause cats/dogs to have diarrhea, not get constipated. Is it possible that my frog has some type of worms that cause constipation? (assuming he is, anyway)
And if his next movement is like his last, I will definitely have enough to test it haha So it is normal for them to have a large amount of feces all at once? Also how often are they supposed to have a movement? He is my first frog (aside from when I was very young) and I don't know what normal is in that aspect.

I know there have to be many way to do this, but basically all we do to prepare a fecal test is mix "Fecal Float Solution" with a small fecal sample in a disposable cup. We put gauze over the cup and "strain" the sample into a tube (big pieces are blocked by gauze leaving only liquid in the tube.) Fill the rest of the tube with the solution, put a glass slide on top (being sure that the solution is slightly "bubbled" at the top so the slide collects whatever may be there) and put it in the spinner. At the other clinic we do the same process, but without the spinner. Either work fine as long as you give at least 10 minutes to sit which allows time for eggs, ect, to float to the top. They then stick to the glass slide which is put under the microscope to analyze. Simple, but you must have the right equipment.

I'm still in the learning process with the parasites myself, but so far I have one frog with strongyloides who was constipated for two weeks and otherwise normal poo before that; one who has strongyloides (and antibodies for giardia but no oocysts) who was normal and now has the runs; one who was treated for coccidiosis who went from normal to runny to normal to constipated (hasn't pooped in over 2 weeks-- honey bath time!) who recently tested positive for hook worm; and two more who started normal and within three days had unformed stool and gelatinous matter, they've been treated for coccidiosis and now hook worm; one of them (they live in same tank) has recently had a normally shaped but soft poo. So you can see there's a wide range of poo possibilities where the parasites are concerned.

I've found that frogs can go after every feeding, or once a week, or longer and still seem to be perfectly normal... at the two week mark I start thinking of those honey baths if softer foods like night crawlers or wax worms aren't bringing results, though.

I think I read in a reptile article on fecals that they wait 20 minutes on the float, but everything you said is spot on for the test from what I have learned. I have a supply house lined up through a Bearded Dragon site, so getting materials/equipment shouldn't be a problem.

[irThumper]

I'm still figuring out how to use this forum and have just realized that you answered after my writing! You have been very helpful in all of your information.
It seems to me that I may have been overreacting and that Jeremy is doing fine for the most part (:

It is looking like he may just be constipated and I'm sure that would affect his eating. I decided on putting him in a 10 gallon tank for feeding, with moist paper towels and crickets only. I also took out the moss as I didn't know how could wind up swallowing it. I know he had crickets roaming his tank at the pet store so I think that I should keep it that way, rather than using a bowl or tongs since that's not what he is used to. After all, he is around a year old and has experienced quite a few changes!

How can I tell if he is active at night? The only evidence I know of is his water bowl having dirt in it. I have not seen him burrow since I last posted that he did, and he seems happier overall since his warm bath last night.

I'm glad to hear that his color changing is normal also, since his warm bath last night he has been climbing on his plants and has been a brighter green. I was going to do a honey bath tonight but I believe I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow. No feces in his tank that I saw, and I removed all of the crickets from his last feeding as well.

Lol, it can be tricky to get used to, especially if folks wind up posting at the same time and cross posting each other (I think I still have one to reply to...? lol)

One thing I really like about damp paper towels is there is no way to miss poop! You're gonna see that thing for sure, unless the frog manages to hide it between plant leaves or in the decor somewhere.

These guys don't always burrow, but they can when preparing to shed or to try to find a cooler spot in the tank.

Some of my guys (Shirley and Jelly Bean usually) come out right after I turn the main lights off and their red nightlights on. Others (like Honey-Lime) take their sweet time to wake up, and my grumpy Dump, Martha, generally won't come out of her cocohut hide, so I need to take that out of her tank to try and encourage her to be a tree frog... doesn't always work as she'll find some other place in there to tuck into. Weird frog, lol. Just watch quietly for a bit after the lights go out and if you have a red nighttime heat light you will be able to see when your guy comes out for the evening.

I feed Shirley & Honey either by hand, bowl or free in a bare bottomed tank, depending on what they are getting to eat and if it is medicated or not, Jelly usually eats free in his house (if he ever gets big and greedy enough to rip off a piece of paper towel, the way Shirley can, he'll be fed in a bare bottom tank. Lucy has a glass feeder bowl with 2" sides, which usally keeps the crickets in, unless they get scared and jump out or they climb up Lucy's back and escape! Martha usually eats when I drop crickets in front of her, but lately she's been letting the darn things escape into the tank-- they wind up going into the rocks around her water dish and perishing there if she doesn't get them, so that's rather a pain to have to get them out of there.

Sounds like Jeremy is doing pretty good!

[Frogger00]

I've read that burrowing can be fatal. I can't remember exactly, but they go into some sort of hibernation mode and a "shell" grows over their body killing them. I think as long as they don't stay burrowed for more than a day, you're good.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[irThumper]

IrThumper, just realized that you commented on my Answers!

I've been trying my best to keep his humidity at 50% but I don't know the best way to do so. I leave the humidifier on pretty much all day and all night. It does best on full blast, but I'm not always home to add water to it, So when I'm gone I keep it on the low setting to make sure there is still water when I come back.

I do cycle 12 hours on and 12 hours off, or as close to that as possible. Most days I get up around the same time so the cycle is pretty close to the same times.

As for the moss, I was told that is was good for their humidity ): I will take it out asap!

I'm unsure whether I can find those other kinds of insects, but I will look at my local pet store and see. I forgot to put that I've offered earthworms. He wasn't interested in those either so I'm not sure if he'd be interested in any other worms. He must be picky.

Are there specific kinds of feeder bowls? Crickets would jump out of regular ones.

I was also told to use calcium at every feeding. Multivitamin 2-3 times a week. Is this wrong?

Lastly, my frog enjoys being handled, so I do get him out for a little while to let him sit on my arm or shoulder. Not always every day, but I try to give him some time out of the tank- he sure enjoys it! When I try to put him back, he'll climb up my arm to avoid going back in the tank. The only other time I handle him is to put him at the bottom of the tank so he knows when feeding time is. I do not put lotion on or any medication on my hands unless it is after I handle my frog. I get cuts/scratches/bites quite often since I work with animals pretty much every day so if I have an open wound I make sure that he doesn't have contact with it as well as practice good hygiene. Thanks for your input and concerns!

[QUOTE=omgitsbekah >>>>>[/QUOTE]IrThumper, just realized that you commented on my Answers!

I've been trying my best to keep his humidity at 50% but I don't know the best way to do so. I leave the humidifier on pretty much all day and all night. It does best on full blast, but I'm not always home to add water to it, So when I'm gone I keep it on the low setting to make sure there is still water when I come back.
What kind of humidity gauge do you have?

I do cycle 12 hours on and 12 hours off, or as close to that as possible. Most days I get up around the same time so the cycle is pretty close to the same times.

As for the moss, I was told that is was good for their humidity ): I will take it out asap!
Yes it can be scary stuff. Lots of frog people use sphagnum moss, especially when shipping, but for White's they are so greedy they will just grab it in with their feeders, swallow it and there you go, trouble! One way to help humidity is live potted plants in the enclosure, making sure they are free of all chemicals, pesticides and fertilizers and are potted in ABG/safe soil. Good plant choices include Dracaena compacta, var. "Janet Craig", Sanseveria (aka Snake plant or Mother-in-Law Tongue), and Pothos.

I'm unsure whether I can find those other kinds of insects, but I will look at my local pet store and see. I forgot to put that I've offered earthworms. He wasn't interested in those either so I'm not sure if he'd be interested in any other worms. He must be picky.
Most frogs absolutely detest "Red Wigglers" or other types of composting worm, so it's thought that they produce a taste that frogs find disagreeable. Canadian nightcrawlers are generally a safe choice. Most petshops should carry waxworms or dubia, if not they can easily be ordered online.

Are there specific kinds of feeder bowls? Crickets would jump out of regular ones.
For myself I try to look for a glass bowl that is textured & has colored glass so the frogs can see something's in the bowl but not exactly what... helps keep them from bashing their little faces trying to eat the crickets through the glass! (usually, lol) and is at least twice as tall as the frog, if possible. The crickets "usually" don't jump out-- unless the frog scares them into a big jump, or they crawl up the frog's back to escape. Everybody has a different idea of what kind of dish they like to use, and sometimes it takes some experimenting to find what you like. I find most of mine at Goodwill or 2nd Hand stores.

I was also told to use calcium at every feeding. Multivitamin 2-3 times a week. Is this wrong?
Everything I've heard from the "folks in the know" here states that Cam/VitD3 once a week, and Multi-Vit once a week (on different days) is perfectly acceptable for an adult White's tree frog. It also helpful to "gut load" the crickets a few hours before you feed them to your frogs. This means feeding a high calcium cricket chow or fresh vegies to them: sweet potato, yam, carrot, kale and leafy lettuce (not iceberg unless it is organic!); A slice of juicy orange can work for a water source for the crickets, or you can offer cotton balls soaked in spring water inside a plastic lid. I purchase a few dozen crickets at a time and keep them in their own small set up where they get fed Fluker's dry high calcium cricket diet, original Cheerios, and the spring water on cotton balls.

Lastly, my frog enjoys being handled, so I do get him out for a little while to let him sit on my arm or shoulder. Not always every day, but I try to give him some time out of the tank- he sure enjoys it! When I try to put him back, he'll climb up my arm to avoid going back in the tank. The only other time I handle him is to put him at the bottom of the tank so he knows when feeding time is. I do not put lotion on or any medication on my hands unless it is after I handle my frog. I get cuts/scratches/bites quite often since I work with animals pretty much every day so if I have an open wound I make sure that he doesn't have contact with it as well as practice good hygiene. Thanks for your input and concerns!
Folks here usually have differing ideas on handling of frogs, but the general consensus is less is best... I personally believe that some (not all) frogs do learn to enjoy being handled on occasion, especially if they are young and cb when you get them. With White's it just seems to come naturally to some of them, and this has even been noted in books about WTFs in the wild. I think a keeper should definitely use discretion, if a frog obviously does not enjoy being handled, don't, if they do then enjoy short intervals of interaction with them but always keep their safety in mind and first priority. It sounds to me like you already have this well in hand-- pardon the pun!

[omgitsbekahxD]

IrThumper, just realized that you commented on my Answers!

I've been trying my best to keep his humidity at 50% but I don't know the best way to do so. I leave the humidifier on pretty much all day and all night. It does best on full blast, but I'm not always home to add water to it, So when I'm gone I keep it on the low setting to make sure there is still water when I come back.
What kind of humidity gauge do you have?

I just have two regular meter humidity guages until I can find a long lasting digital one that isn't overly expensive. That is probably correlating to my issue with humidity then, isn't it?

As for the moss, I was told that is was good for their humidity ): I will take it out asap!
Yes it can be scary stuff. Lots of frog people use sphagnum moss, especially when shipping, but for White's they are so greedy they will just grab it in with their feeders, swallow it and there you go, trouble! One way to help humidity is live potted plants in the enclosure, making sure they are free of all chemicals, pesticides and fertilizers and are potted in ABG/safe soil. Good plant choices include Dracaena compacta, var. "Janet Craig", Sanseveria (aka Snake plant or Mother-in-Law Tongue), and Pothos.

That makes sense, i took the moss out last night so it's gone for good! I also have been planning to put a pothos in his tank, my mom has one that I wanted to take some small pieces off and put in there. I will have to see if she has added fertilizers, and is using good soil that would be safe for him. If she isnt using safe soil, is it okay to take a piece off of the plant and replace it with organic soil or do I have to get a new plant all together? & Do the plants have to be potted or can they be planted directly into the substrate of the tank? Id rather do that, but I can pot it if necessary.

I'm unsure whether I can find those other kinds of insects, but I will look at my local pet store and see. I forgot to put that I've offered earthworms. He wasn't interested in those either so I'm not sure if he'd be interested in any other worms. He must be picky.
Most frogs absolutely detest "Red Wigglers" or other types of composting worm, so it's thought that they produce a taste that frogs find disagreeable. Canadian nightcrawlers are generally a safe choice. Most petshops should carry waxworms or dubia, if not they can easily be ordered online.

He wouldn't even look at the worms, but I still will give something else a go. I do have nightcrawlers already so ill try those next! I have an axolotl that eats earthworms, and the nightcrawlers were too big for her. The meal worms are for my boyfriends leopard gecko so I have a bunch of different choices for everyone! Although I will not try to feed him earthworms or mealworms again.

Are there specific kinds of feeder bowls? Crickets would jump out of regular ones.
For myself I try to look for a glass bowl that is textured & has colored glass so the frogs can see something's in the bowl but not exactly what... helps keep them from bashing their little faces trying to eat the crickets through the glass! (usually, lol) and is at least twice as tall as the frog, if possible. The crickets "usually" don't jump out-- unless the frog scares them into a big jump, or they crawl up the frog's back to escape. Everybody has a different idea of what kind of dish they like to use, and sometimes it takes some experimenting to find what you like. I find most of mine at Goodwill or 2nd Hand stores.

I'll see what I can find and definitely consider that (: For now I'll be feeding him in a separate aquarium, it seems to be working. He ate three crickets last night!

I was also told to use calcium at every feeding. Multivitamin 2-3 times a week. Is this wrong?
Everything I've heard from the "folks in the know" here states that Cam/VitD3 once a week, and Multi-Vit once a week (on different days) is perfectly acceptable for an adult White's tree frog. It also helpful to "gut load" the crickets a few hours before you feed them to your frogs. This means feeding a high calcium cricket chow or fresh vegies to them: sweet potato, yam, carrot, kale and leafy lettuce (not iceberg unless it is organic!); A slice of juicy orange can work for a water source for the crickets, or you can offer cotton balls soaked in spring water inside a plastic lid. I purchase a few dozen crickets at a time and keep them in their own small set up where they get fed Fluker's dry high calcium cricket diet, original Cheerios, and the spring water on cotton balls.

Not dusting them every feeding makes my life easier then haha I'll be sure to only do it once a week for both. I do have high quality food for them and give them potatoes in case their water supply dries out before I give them more (: they are in a little insect container with a couple of tubes to crawl in, two food dishes, a water dish (with sponge in it), and a cardboard piece.

Lastly, my frog enjoys being handled, so I do get him out for a little while to let him sit on my arm or shoulder. Not always every day, but I try to give him some time out of the tank- he sure enjoys it! When I try to put him back, he'll climb up my arm to avoid going back in the tank. The only other time I handle him is to put him at the bottom of the tank so he knows when feeding time is. I do not put lotion on or any medication on my hands unless it is after I handle my frog. I get cuts/scratches/bites quite often since I work with animals pretty much every day so if I have an open wound I make sure that he doesn't have contact with it as well as practice good hygiene. Thanks for your input and concerns!
Folks here usually have differing ideas on handling of frogs, but the general consensus is less is best... I personally believe that some (not all) frogs do learn to enjoy being handled on occasion, especially if they are young and cb when you get them. With White's it just seems to come naturally to some of them, and this has even been noted in books about WTFs in the wild. I think a keeper should definitely use discretion, if a frog obviously does not enjoy being handled, don't, if they do then enjoy short intervals of interaction with them but always keep their safety in mind and first priority. It sounds to me like you already have this well in hand-- pardon the pun!

Yes im sure it depend on the certain frog or animal in general! The pet store told me and showed me that he was tame and like to be held so that's one reason I got him. I didn't plan plan have another animal but I fell in love with him (:

[omgitsbekahxD]

Lol, it can be tricky to get used to, especially if folks wind up posting at the same time and cross posting each other (I think I still have one to reply to...? lol)

One thing I really like about damp paper towels is there is no way to miss poop! You're gonna see that thing for sure, unless the frog manages to hide it between plant leaves or in the decor somewhere.

-They are, but I don't think he's a fan of them. Im hoping he'll poop in the feeding tank so ill be able to get a nice and clean sample (as clean as it can be anyway) but as long as he does it, I'll be happy haha


These guys don't always burrow, but they can when preparing to shed or to try to find a cooler spot in the tank.

- I had no idea that they burrow before shedding, that's probably why he burrowed in the first place! He started shedding the second day. How often do they shed? Ive seen him do it twice in a month.

Some of my guys (Shirley and Jelly Bean usually) come out right after I turn the main lights off and their red nightlights on. Others (like Honey-Lime) take their sweet time to wake up, and my grumpy Dump, Martha, generally won't come out of her cocohut hide, so I need to take that out of her tank to try and encourage her to be a tree frog... doesn't always work as she'll find some other place in there to tuck into. Weird frog, lol. Just watch quietly for a bit after the lights go out and if you have a red nighttime heat light you will be able to see when your guy comes out for the evening.

-Ive hung around and watched him to see if he'd do anything but he usually stays in his plants. Like I said though, his water bowl is usually dirty when I wake up so he must come down at least for a little bit. Is a red light better than a purple one? He has a purple one now, but the gecko has red. Not sure which is best but I use the purple for night as well as heat all day.

I feed Shirley & Honey either by hand, bowl or free in a bare bottomed tank, depending on what they are getting to eat and if it is medicated or not, Jelly usually eats free in his house (if he ever gets big and greedy enough to rip off a piece of paper towel, the way Shirley can, he'll be fed in a bare bottom tank. Lucy has a glass feeder bowl with 2" sides, which usally keeps the crickets in, unless they get scared and jump out or they climb up Lucy's back and escape! Martha usually eats when I drop crickets in front of her, but lately she's been letting the darn things escape into the tank-- they wind up going into the rocks around her water dish and perishing there if she doesn't get them, so that's rather a pain to have to get them out of there.

-i have also tried putting crickets in front of him and holding them for him but he wouldn't eat that way. So picky! Haha

Sounds like Jeremy is doing pretty good!

& Im glad to hear that he seems healthy! That makes me so happy and relieved (:

[irThumper]

They shed when they grow, and the younger the frog the more shedding there is, I had mine shed every day to every other day as youngsters, I'd say they probably shed a couple times a month at least... hard to tell when you don't catch them at it, but loose bits and strings of skin are a tell tale sign. They can also shed a lot when they have a bacterial or fungal issue going on, and they try to get rid of the infection.

[irThumper]

I've read that burrowing can be fatal. I can't remember exactly, but they go into some sort of hibernation mode and a "shell" grows over their body killing them. I think as long as they don't stay burrowed for more than a day, you're good.


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When White's tree frogs go into hibernation they cover themselves with a coating of slime and mucous to help conserve moisture. I can't imagine this turning into a hard shell unless something goes wrong and the frog desiccates all together while they are in stasis

[omgitsbekahxD]

They shed when they grow, and the younger the frog the more shedding there is, I had mine shed every day to every other day as youngsters, I'd say they probably shed a couple times a month at least... hard to tell when you don't catch them at it, but loose bits and strings of skin are a tell tale sign. They can also shed a lot when they have a bacterial or fungal issue going on, and they try to get rid of the infection.

Yeah the first time I saw loose skin on him, and I freaked out a little until I read somewhere that they shed and eat their skin. Then about two weeks after that I actively saw him do it. It was interesting but also kind of gross to see lol I can't imagine him doing that every day! If he does do it more than twice a month, should I be concerned that he has some type of infection?

[omgitsbekahxD]

Quick question: there is supposed to be a winter storm tonight where I live that could possibly cause power outages. If that occurs, what can I do to keep my frog and lizard warm? Should I move the tanks close to a heater/fire place? Obviously not right in front, but close enough to where the temperatures stay up?

[Crunchy Frog]

Quick question: there is supposed to be a winter storm tonight where I live that could possibly cause power outages. If that occurs, what can I do to keep my frog and lizard warm? Should I move the tanks close to a heater/fire place? Obviously not right in front, but close enough to where the temperatures stay up?

Hi. I just happened to see this question, and I just happened to have found this article tonight.

Keeping your Frogs Warm in a Power Outage - Josh's Frogs How-To Guides for Reptiles & Amphibians

Hope you all came through the storm okay.

[irThumper]

Hi. I just happened to see this question, and I just happened to have found this article tonight.

Keeping your Frogs Warm in a Power Outage - Josh's Frogs How-To Guides for Reptiles & Amphibians

Hope you all came through the storm okay.

I've read that one on one of my Facebook groups, great article! Thanks for sharing I hope they made it through well too!

[irThumper]

Yeah the first time I saw loose skin on him, and I freaked out a little until I read somewhere that they shed and eat their skin. Then about two weeks after that I actively saw him do it. It was interesting but also kind of gross to see lol I can't imagine him doing that every day! If he does do it more than twice a month, should I be concerned that he has some type of infection?

If he's doing everything normal as per usual and not looking like he's unwell I'd say it's fine. I've had times when my guys spend some extended times soaking, but if they're stuck in a shed that could be normal as well. If they don't move, not eating, or are lethargic at night and look just "not right" then it's time to worry.

[elly]

I've read that burrowing can be fatal. I can't remember exactly, but they go into some sort of hibernation mode and a "shell" grows over their body killing them. I think as long as they don't stay burrowed for more than a day, you're good.


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I don't think it's actually the burrowing that kills them, but cold temperatures and hibernation. Hibernation and shutting down the body is always risky. Not sure if it's true but I've heard that trying to hibernate with undigested food in their stomachs can cause it to ferment and kill the frog.

[omgitsbekahxD]

Thanks for your replies, the only thing that I'm able to do is put them in the same room as the fireplace. I put blankets over and under the tanks. They seem to be doing okay temperature wise, last time I checked. I also had to put my hedgehog in his playpen beside their tanks so he would stay warm too. His cage is my whole walk in closet and it gets very cold without the heat! Hopefully this power outage doesn't last too long. It is just the beginning and I dont believe we'll be getting it back on anytime soon. We had constant rain all day yesterday, then sleet for a few hours, and now at least a foot of snow. The dogs seem to enjoy it at least! 🐶

[omgitsbekahxD]

He has been in his leaf all day today and was in it for a while yesterday. I gave him another warm bath and he ate two crickets. Havent seen any poop. I have clover honey, but it doesnt have the ingredients on the bottle. Is this okay to use for a honey bath? Im assuming it's pure honey.

[elly]

That should be fine. "Clover" just means the bees made the honey from fields of clover.

[omgitsbekahxD]

That should be fine. "Clover" just means the bees made the honey from fields of clover.

Great! I'll do the honey bath as soon as I'm able. With the power outage I had to bring him and my lizard to work to stay.

[irThumper]

I don't think it's actually the burrowing that kills them, but cold temperatures and hibernation. Hibernation and shutting down the body is always risky.

>>>>Not sure if it's true but I've heard that trying to hibernate with undigested food in their stomachs can cause it to ferment and kill the frog<<<<

Good question there, definitely needs some looking into!