March MOTM - Lisa (irThumper)

[irThumper]

Ok, back to this...


(In the interest of time I am going to repost my very first post, which was about the guys we built this micro-eco habitat for)

I first found FrogForum while researching for the above project... here is my very first post!

Pacific NW Frog Lover


Hello all!

My name's Lisa but my friends call me "Thumper" (first name given pre-birth, lol). My introduction to the world of amphibians began when my grandpa gave me two Pacific tree frogs to take to first grade show and tell a LONG time ago. I have been a frog lover ever since! From those first two little frogs we wound up being "'Phib Keepers" for a number of years as I grew up. Our last were a pair of Bombina Orientalis back in the mid 1990's, then we had a long hiatus... until recently. At the beginning of July 2014 we had a Pacific tree frog show up on the sidewalk near our wheelchair ramp, out in front of our apartment. We have green space behind us (closest known water source is a small pond at a retirement center a few blocks away) but everything here is all concrete and black top out front, no landscaping. We placed a small water dish by the ramp and would look for froggy at night as he climbed up the wood siding and snatched flying insects drawn by the porch light. From the first frog three others eventually showed up... what concerned us was we were heading into a heat wave, and all these little frogs had was a hot sidewalk, a short wheelchair ramp to hide under, and a little dish of water. One day it was so hot that one of the frogs was out in the dish in the middle of the day; he looked bad, and when I came closer he didn't even move. I wondered if he was comatose from the 100 degree heat... he didn't even move after I picked up the dish-- until I took it into our air conditioned apartment, then his eyes suddenly popped open! I put him inside a long tank containing two trailing semi-miniature African violets and he looked very happy to see the plants, crawling into one immediately. We made the decision to try and bring his other little friends in as well (all four were half grown). It wasn't too hard, as when I opened the door that night one was sitting on the metal ridge right in front of the doorway (it might have been cooler there due to the ac leaking through?) so I scooped him up and brought him in; the same scenario happened with #3 & #4. So now we have had these little green & brown "house guests" for about 4 weeks and have made them as comfortable as possible. I determined that when the weather/temps moderate (the frog temps indoors range between 73-75 F. vs the 90 degree temps currently outside) that we would return them to a more frog friendly environment, making sure to be in plenty of time for them to get ready for winter hibernation. In the meantime a 5th frog showed up outside! And that's when I came up with the idea to build a micro-eco frog habitat out on our sidewalk. I've enjoyed having these guys for a visit, and I have taken plenty of video to remember them when they leave our froggy hotel Someday I hope to be able to get a pair or trio of White's Tree Frogs and keep them in a really awesome live planted set up, something I've wanted to do for a long time, lol. Would love to talk to other folks who especially love tree frogs. Thanks! ~irThumper


http://www.frogforum.net/introductions-area/30712-pacific-nw-frog-lover.html

Here is the album I made of our visiting PCFs, inside and out

irThumper's Album: Pacific Tree Frogs by irThumper

On September 28, 2014 our little house guests returned to the wild; they were released in ecologically friendly PCF habitat (with shrubs/trees/meadows, a creek, and breeding pond) on private property. This album details that day...

irThumper's Album: Pacific Tree Frogs Return to Nature by irThumper

In the couple months I sheltered these PCFs I learned quite a bit more than what we knew about frog care growing up... there was NO information back then, and we basically were winging it, with recommendations from my ecologically experienced grandpa. We never had any problems with our PCFs as far as skin disease, MBD, intestinal issues (they always had nice firm little poops), constipation, etc. The only issue we ever ran across was one frog who prolapsed and another, older frog, who eventually went blind but otherwise led a perfectly normal life. We kept our first frogs for 6+ years and many of them lived to be at least that old, maybe older, as the majority of them were fully grown adults when we got them. This time around I discovered just how many advancements have been made in herp keeping and care... there are many species available in the herp trade, a good selection of supplements & feeder choices, numerous housing options, supplies galore, decor up the wazoo, and best of all there are internet resources like FrogForum! The one thing still lacking is knowledgeable herp vets, particularly where frogs are concerned-- frogs need to stop being viewed as "disposable" pets because veterinarians that deal with them are so few and far between, and when they are located that the expense is often so exorbitant that folks can't afford to pay. It's not that frogs are any less valuable (just look at various prices for some species!) or deserve treatment less than more typical pets, the problem is that when a problem with a frog arises that the deck is often severely stacked against them for survival, especially when it comes to issues requiring more than just simple medication. Frogs are fragile, sensitive beings... they are the barometers of the world, and are showing us what we ourselves are facing if we don't do something to clean up this planet and fix what human beings have done to destroy our home



Next: From PCFs to WTFs, learning curves galore!

[irThumper]

I don't remember when I saw White's tree frogs for the very first time, but I know when I did I thought they were AWESOME and I was determined to have some someday. I had forgotten about my idea until our summer PCF project wrapped up; I again thought about the White's tree frogs, but I determined maybe I should start my modern day frog keeping with something a little closer to the PCFs. While doing research last year I discovered restrictions on keeping frogs in our state... I found out that, along with not keeping native species as pets (which apparently was not an issue when I was a kid!) that Bombina Orientalis were no longer allowed here (bummer!) but that neither were some other frog species commonly kept as pets across the U.S., namely Gray tree frogs, American green tree frogs, Barking tree frogs, and similar There went THAT idea! I also found out that Cane toads and Cuban tree frogs ARE allowed here... they live in the same places as Grays and American greens and DEVOUR them, so how convoluted is that?? But there still were the ever popular Dumpy's, thankfully! So I made plans for the "future"...

As stated in my very first FF post, my idea was to get a nice large tank and make an awesome living vivarium set up for 2-3 White's tree frogs. I was going to set up this viv and let it establish for a year, then purchase some WTFs online from a reputable source-- yeah, riiiiiight! Lol. I had been purchasing crickets from the PCFs at our local Petco, but had not noticed any White's tree frogs at the store, only the usual reptile suspects and an occasional PacMan, then one day I went back to look and guess what? They had a couple of babies, and they were ADORABLE! Whenever I went in for more crickets (about every other week) I would look to see if they had WTFs in, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't, but they never had many at a time so I figured they must be very popular and sell out fast. After our PCF friends returned to nature I still went in for crickets, as I was feeding some to the PCFs hanging around the micro-eco habitat we put up. I noticed one day (Oct 1, 2014) that Petco had changed all the cages around and now the White's tree frogs were on the side the lizards had formerly occupied. I went to see if they had any WTFs and lo and behold they had a HUGE batch... I thought that was pretty crazy, stuffing all those guys into one tiny 5 gallon tank, and I couldn't understand why they had a bowl of moss in their tank... The PCFs were naturally kept on native mosses, but they didn't have the impaction risk that WTFs had (as I learned on FF) so I couldn't understand why moss in with these babies, much less in a bowl? They had a piece of mopani wood in with them, Eco-earth, one small fake plant, and a very shallow dish partially filled with water-- and that was full of substrate. There were crickets everywhere loose in the tank. Most of the frogs were crammed in the upper corners of the tank by the heat and humidity gauges, some of them were on the ground. One thing that caught my eye about the sleeping frogs was that some of them had little flecks of white on them, or white spots on their sides, which was different from the plain green WTFs I'd seen in a previous store and online, and one was a very pale honey color. I immediately thought of Sandfire Dragon Ranch and their special WTF morphs (this was where I wanted to get my first Dumpys), and when I noticed the cheap price of the frogs at Petco my mind started clicking... But no, I said I would wait a year and not get any frogs from a big box store, especially after some of the things I had heard, and the obviously poor management of the animals at the store. But I thought, what would it hurt to just to ask to see the frogs (oh, HA HA HA!). One of the clerks came and opened the tank (I had rinsed my hands and dried them well ahead of time, which she had not) and I went to pick up the honey colored frog... this little thing made great strides to not be captured, clear to the point of leaping clean out of the tank and landing on the floor! I said the frog was a sassy-pants, lol. After putting that one back I next picked up the largest one in the group, a pretty bluish-green with little specks of white and bigger white side spots.This frog was more placid. The clerk was talking to me about the frogs, and then she told me something that made up my mind for me... she mentioned how they had gotten a batch of 6 baby WTFs in before this latest one, and some idiot worker at the store put them in the tank the tree frogs USED to be in. That tank was now used for housing lizards-- the baby frogs BAKED to death! That was it, sassy-pants frog and blue-green frog came home with us that night! And I was totally unprepared... well, almost, lol.

The first thing the clerk tried to do was put the baby frogs in a little cardboard carry out box, I refused that and asked them if they had any plastic shipping containers... they'd just received a new batch of baby tree frogs (thumb print size) three days before, and put them in with the bigger guys who were probably a couple weeks older appx, so they still had their containers. The kids barely fit into them, as their backs were just touching the plastic lids, but they rode home on damp paper towels (unchlorinated water) in those little plastic dishes. When I got them home I took a plastic food grade jar I used to transport crickets in and drilled some holes in it, I then took the lids off the plastic shipping containers and placed these into the jar side by side. This is where the new kids, later dubbed Honey-Lime and Shirley, stayed while I prepared the 5 gallon 2nd hand Kritter Keeper (the one I used to transport the PCFs to their new home) as their new temporary home/QT tank. I knew of the possible risk in contacting Chytrid (even thought the PCFs seemed perfectly healthy) so I bleached the bejeebers out of that Kritter Keeper then rinsed and rinsed with hot water until there was no bleach smell left. I put down white Viva paper towels for substrate, gave them a water dish that they wouldn't drown in, and a live Dracaena compacta var. "Janet Craig", that I had. I didn't want them to get into the soil (because of perlite) so I packed some clean loose moss tightly onto the surface, figuring since it was up off the ground I wouldn't have issues with them eating crickets off moss (one of those learning curve things!)




...I'm going to go ahead and publish this now and get back to it. We've got a big windstorm kicking up here right now and the lights just flickered; I don't want to risk losing this post if the power goes off (and I'm worried about the frogs too if it does!) -To Be Continued!

[LilyPad]

Sorry I'm so late in the day posting this! It's been a busy day!

Week 3, show and tell. Wow us with your pictures/videos/sound clips.

[irThumper]

No worries! I'm late finishing up week #2! I'll just do that and swing right into the photos and vids ...After I finish helping someone on Facebook with a Chytrid question for their poor juvenile WTF

[irThumper]

And now a word from our sponsor-- COMING THIS SUMMER TO YOUR FAVORITE STATION...



(No one specified if they all had to be frog videos...!)

[irThumper]

This spot reserved for POOP! Normal... Or Not So Much...?

(To be continued...)

[irThumper]

Guh, this darn cold! I will get the post about my WTFS... I will! In the meantime will post some Week 3 vids!

[irThumper]

Starting with the PCFs...

[irThumper]

Continued...

I don't remember when I saw White's tree frogs for the very first time, but I know when I did I thought they were AWESOME and I was determined to have some someday. I had forgotten about my idea until our summer PCF project wrapped up; I again thought about the White's tree frogs, but I determined maybe I should start my modern day frog keeping with something a little closer to the PCFs. While doing research last year I discovered restrictions on keeping frogs in our state... I found out that, along with not keeping native species as pets (which apparently was not an issue when I was a kid!) that Bombina Orientalis were no longer allowed here (bummer!) but that neither were some other frog species commonly kept as pets across the U.S., namely Gray tree frogs, American green tree frogs, Barking tree frogs, and similar There went THAT idea! I also found out that Cane toads and Cuban tree frogs ARE allowed here... they live in the same places as Grays and American greens and DEVOUR them, so how convoluted is that?? But there still were the ever popular Dumpy's, thankfully! So I made plans for the "future"...

As stated in my very first FF post, my idea was to get a nice large tank and make an awesome living vivarium set up for 2-3 White's tree frogs. I was going to set up this viv and let it establish for a year, then purchase some WTFs online from a reputable source-- yeah, riiiiiight! Lol. I had been purchasing crickets from the PCFs at our local Petco, but had not noticed any White's tree frogs at the store, only the usual reptile suspects and an occasional PacMan, then one day I went back to look and guess what? They had a couple of babies, and they were ADORABLE! Whenever I went in for more crickets (about every other week) I would look to see if they had WTFs in, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't, but they never had many at a time so I figured they must be very popular and sell out fast. After our PCF friends returned to nature I still went in for crickets, as I was feeding some to the PCFs hanging around the micro-eco habitat we put up. I noticed one day (Oct 1, 2014) that Petco had changed all the cages around and now the White's tree frogs were on the side the lizards had formerly occupied. I went to see if they had any WTFs and lo and behold they had a HUGE batch... I thought that was pretty crazy, stuffing all those guys into one tiny 5 gallon tank, and I couldn't understand why they had a bowl of moss in their tank... The PCFs were naturally kept on native mosses, but they didn't have the impaction risk that WTFs had (as I learned on FF) so I couldn't understand why moss in with these babies, much less in a bowl? They had a piece of mopani wood in with them, Eco-earth, one small fake plant, and a very shallow dish partially filled with water-- and that was full of substrate. There were crickets everywhere loose in the tank. Most of the frogs were crammed in the upper corners of the tank by the heat and humidity gauges, some of them were on the ground. One thing that caught my eye about the sleeping frogs was that some of them had little flecks of white on them, or white spots on their sides, which was different from the plain green WTFs I'd seen in a previous store and online, and one was a very pale honey color. I immediately thought of Sandfire Dragon Ranch and their special WTF morphs (this was where I wanted to get my first Dumpys), and when I noticed the cheap price of the frogs at Petco my mind started clicking... But no, I said I would wait a year and not get any frogs from a big box store, especially after some of the things I had heard, and the obviously poor management of the animals at the store. But I thought, what would it hurt to just to ask to see the frogs (oh, HA HA HA!). One of the clerks came and opened the tank (I had rinsed my hands and dried them well ahead of time, which she had not) and I went to pick up the honey colored frog... this little thing made great strides to not be captured, clear to the point of leaping clean out of the tank and landing on the floor! I said the frog was a sassy-pants, lol. After putting that one back I next picked up the largest one in the group, a pretty bluish-green with little specks of white and bigger white side spots.This frog was more placid. The clerk was talking to me about the frogs, and then she told me something that made up my mind for me... she mentioned how they had gotten a batch of 6 baby WTFs in before this latest one, and some idiot worker at the store put them in the tank the tree frogs USED to be in. That tank was now used for housing lizards-- the baby frogs BAKED to death! That was it, sassy-pants frog and blue-green frog came home with us that night! And I was totally unprepared... well, almost, lol.

The first thing the clerk tried to do was put the baby frogs in a little cardboard carry out box, I refused that and asked them if they had any plastic shipping containers... they'd just received a new batch of baby tree frogs (thumb print size) three days before, and put them in with the bigger guys who were probably a couple weeks older appx, so they still had their containers. The kids barely fit into them, as their backs were just touching the plastic lids, but they rode home on damp paper towels (unchlorinated water) in those little plastic dishes. When I got them home I took a plastic food grade jar I used to transport crickets in and drilled some holes in it, I then took the lids off the plastic shipping containers and placed these into the jar side by side. This is where the new kids, later dubbed Honey-Lime and Shirley, stayed while I prepared the 5 gallon 2nd hand Kritter Keeper (the one I used to transport the PCFs to their new home) as their new temporary home/QT tank. I knew of the possible risk in contacting Chytrid (even thought the PCFs seemed perfectly healthy) so I bleached the bejeebers out of that Kritter Keeper then rinsed and rinsed with hot water until there was no bleach smell left. I put down white Viva paper towels for substrate, gave them a water dish that they wouldn't drown in, and a live Dracaena compacta var. "Janet Craig", that I had. I didn't want them to get into the soil (because of perlite) so I packed some clean loose moss tightly onto the surface, figuring since it was up off the ground I wouldn't have issues with them eating crickets off moss (one of those learning curve things!)




...I'm going to go ahead and publish this now and get back to it. We've got a big windstorm kicking up here right now and the lights just flickered; I don't want to risk losing this post if the power goes off (and I'm worried about the frogs too if it does!) -To Be Continued!

Back to the story--

The first two kids lived in the kitchen for the first few days. It was plenty warm inside for early October and they didn't need any supplemental heating, the only downside is I had to move their tank every time I wanted to use the microwave! :O




Eventually I moved the guys into my plant room. So as the two new froggles were settling in I kept thinking back to the other WTF babies in the store, and so on two subsequent trips to get supplies that week I checked in on them. I'd had my eye on one of the other snow flakey ones, but I also wanted to check in on a tiny little dark chocolate brown one that had been sitting on the mopani wood both times-- same spot, same posture, apparently alseep, all hunched over with his little eyes tightly closed. The last time I saw him that way I was determined to take him home-- yeah, generally a big mistake, I know. So I went back 9 days after buying Shirley and Honey... the little speckled green guy was there, but where was the little dark guy? I asked the clerk, who was, of course, completely clueless. I said, "He's been sitting on that mopani all week, but it's been moved. Did someone clean the cage?" And, natually, she was STILL clueless. So she opened the cage and flipped the mopani over then moved on to looking behind the fake plant, but I saw the little guy! He was all flattened down and covered in substrate. I said, "There he is!" and pointed, and the clerk said, "Isn't that poop?" I gently poked the "poop", and it moved...! NOT poop! Poor baby So I scooped the tiny frog up and they put him into my frog carrying container, along with the light green snowflake baby and my 2nd set of White's tree frogs came home. The snowfkale baby was named Sheila, and the little brown guy I named Jelly Bean, after the cappuccino Jelly Belly bean, due to his color and markings.

Sheila seemed to settle in well from the very beginning, but poor Jelly Bean still had his eyes shut and barely moved... but he wanted to try. He could sense the crickets when they were near, and would make a grab for one when it went past him, he also somehow managed to follow Sheila to the top of their flower pot perch. I didn't see Jelly going to the water dish, I think maybe he was afraid of drowning because he couldn't see, so I gave him gentle misting baths, or drizzled water onto him from a squeeze bottle. After three days he went from this...




To this! His eyes were open and he was coming out of his shell...! Though at first I wondered if he was blind (he still had some trouble aiming at crickets) this soon proved not to be the case.



Jelly and sHEila looking at a cricket on the leaf above (mirror in the background)


Jelly Bean watching water dropplets slide down the glass (mirror in background)


So there I had my first set of White's tree frogs...

Everyone seemed to be settling in well, Jelly wasn't blind, you'd think everything would be hunky dory happy happy joy joy! right?
Well... not so much... O_o

Coming next: The problems with POOP!