EMERGENCY: White's Tree Frog VERY SICK--may not make it thru next 24hrs

[Frogger00]

Possibly sounds like edema? Do you have pics?


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[irThumper]

Hello, Caerulea... sorry your frog is not well!

I know you are anxious to get help, but answering these questions will help folks here to figure out just what the problem might be:

QUESTIONS

1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

My recommendation for now is to get your afflicted frog into a quarantine enclosure by itself. A 10 gallon tank would be ideal, use plain white damp paper towels for substrate and provide fake plants to hide in and a dish of water that will reach up to your frogs chin. Keep him somewhere quiet where his temps will be close to 75-80F and make sure his paper towels don't dry out but aren't soggy.

There are many different reasons a frog might be bloated or have problems moving his limbs. I'm not sure about these white spots... did they come off when you removed the unshed skin? Did they seem to be a secretion? A frog can tox-out, or be constipated, impacted, or have disease...

I know these questions are in the list up above, but when is the last time you saw your frog poop? (Would be hard to determine in a community tank unless you actually saw it) What is your substrate? Do you dust the crickets with Calcium/D3 powder and a multi-vitamin? What do you clean the tank with?

Other than moving him into a hospital tank I would give him a warm honey soak-- dechlor water, just barely warm to the touch, 3-4 drops of NATURAL real honey per cup of water... the water level should reach the frogs chin when he is sitting up. If he is unable to maintain and upright position or has paralysis I would support him in the water with your hand. Soak him for twenty minutes then rinse him off with barely warm fresh dechlor water to get the honey off. If he is just constipated this will often help the frog poop, usually while they are still in the water. 5 days is not a hugely long time for a frog to not eat, but with the other symptoms it is a concern, you could try using Fluker's Repta Boost to get some nutrients into him.

Please answer the questions up above, thanks! Hope your frog pulls through!

[caerulia]

QUESTIONS

1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species) Australian White's Tree Frog
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" 17"x17"x24"
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? ) 3-same species-same size
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate no
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined no/no
8----what is the typical humidity level humidity meter broke / mist 3-4 x daily
9----what temperature is maintained about 85 degrees
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure NatGeo uva & uvb basking bulb
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically) 1 bulb directly over center of enclosure above mesh top, fake plants attached to inside of top mesh to dilute the heat coming in, on a timer 8am-8pm
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning, etc) complete break-down every 3 months & fresh dechlorinated water added every 3-4 days
13---what kind of water is used dechlorinate water in mister and in tank (API tap water conditioner)
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific small river rocks on top of mesh on top of clay balls for filtration
15---enclosure set up water feature using a filter as a pump, lots of grape vine wood pieces, lots of frog moss, hanging moss balls & hanging wood
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned cleaned 1 month ago--everything taken out and scrubbed/rinsed (no chemicals)
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog at 6 days ago (giant mealworm
17---have you found poop lately no
18---how often is the frog fed every other day (longer if given a pinkie mouse)
19---what size feeder is given large crickets, giant mealworms, superworms, wax worms, occassionally a tiny pinkie mouse
20---what other feeders are used as treats none
21---what is the frog's main food source I mix it up, but mostly mealworms (which I now am stopping because I now know the issues it can cause)
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed fed by hand--I put the item in my palm & they eat it
23---vitamins - what brand and how often none
24---calcium - what brand and how often Fluker's calcium w/vitamin D
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time no
26---approximate age of the frog 1-2 yrs
27---how long have you owned the frog 15 months
28---who cared for the frog before you PetSmart
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves maybe once a week for a few seconds (wash hands before/no gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area low traffic in corner of room
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no) no--no light/heat source available for a quarantine tank
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication: no
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

I did the honey water soak last night before I saw your suggestion on my thread (I'd found it elsewhere). I did it last night exactly as you said eventho I hadn't seen your suggestion yet. I had to hold his chin up during the honey soak last night because he was so weak. His back thighs were so swollen that I thought the skin might actually burst open--this morning there was almost no swelling in the thighs ...His belly is still a bit swollen, back legs are still stiff and he's still lethargic. The white spots were gone this morning, too. He was sitting in the same spot in the open that I left him last night eventho the basking bulb had been on for an hour already. I did another honey soak this morning & didn't have to hold his chin up this time. I put him in a shady spot that isnt too moist but not too dry, either. I'm considering giving him some ReptiBoost today. No longer going to feed them mealworms or superworms. I also did a water change last night, rinsed the whole enclosure, and scrubbed/rinsed all of the props before I did the honey water soak.

**NOT ABLE TO ADD PICTURES BECAUSE IT KEEPS SAYING "NOT A VALID FILE" EVENTHO ITS A .JPG

[LilyPad]

For starters, the tank is very small for 3 whites tree frogs. They also appear to have a very fatty diet. A picture would be very helpful in figuring out what is going on. Sounds like edema, but not sure of the cause. Is the heat bulb off at night time?

[jarteta97]

Yes, I would agree that a picture would help a lot, both of the enclosure and of the frog.

[caerulia]

As I said before, it will not allow me to post an image. I have saved the images as a .jpg but every time I try to upload them, the page says "this is not a valid image file".
This is the best I can do--its a link to an image of a person standing by the tank that I have for size comparison
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xX_spcxAV14/maxresdefault.jpg

Also, they do not have a fatty diet. They get wax worms maybe once or twice every couple of months and they get one giant mealworm or superworm every other day. They get tiny pinkie mice maybe once every couple of months and they are not fed for 3-4 days afterward. When I feed them crickets they get 2 every other day. The food items are always dusted with the Fluker's calcium with vitamin D3 & they do not eat off of the substrate to prevent them ingesting foreign materials

I also already stated that the uva/uvb bulb is on a timer from 8am-8pm

[LilyPad]

I'm trying to clarify things to get an idea of what is going on. A lot of us have multiple bulbs/lamps/heaters etc on the tank so I was just clarifying that I was reading correctly, that there was only one bulb and it was only on for 12 hours. What is the night time temps when it is off? Big temp swings could contribute to issues.

If you would like to send me a picture so that I can try to post it for you, feel free to pm me and I will give you my email address.

As for the fatty diet, yes the diet has been fatty. Mealworms are fatty and you said that is the main food source. (I did read that you will be changing it up, but that's what it says.) Waxworms are fatty, super worms are fatty, pinkie mice are very fatty. When you wrote that no feeders were being used as treats, I assumed all of these were regular foods other than the mice that you specified were occasional. Primary food source should be roaches, crickets, or night crawlers (can get them at walmart, make sure they are night crawlers and not earthworms.) I'm thinking there might be an obesity issue, we've seen it here before, but without a picture I can't assume that.

I'm sorry your frog isn't feeling well, hopefully we can get this figured out.