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Thread: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

  1. #1
    Plethodon
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    Unhappy White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    Our white's tree frog was given to me about six months ago... It started out ravenous and growing, but, when winter began, she began hanging out in her water bowl more and eating less. For the past month or so she hasn't eaten much at all (despite having an under tank heater). Yesterday I found her out of her water bowl (which is unusual) on a dry patch of subsrate. Her skin was slightly darker and covered in mucous. I immediately placed her in her water bowl, and she reacted by squeezing up and staying stiff for a couple of minutes. At first I thought she was dead, but them she settled down and I, thinking she was dehydrated, exchanged her bowl water and wet the habitat, placing additional moss on the substrate. I let her be this morning, but when I came back in the afternoon she was out on the substrate again (on a damp patch this time), darker, with more mucous and strange white stuff on her back... it is yellowish and covers almost a third of her back. It is horrible because this has appeared so quickly and I have no idea what it is. She is also holding her legs out behind her more than usual. What is this and how do I fix it?

    Update- I have tried multiple times to upload the picture but it says that the image is invalid...

    She is a White's tree frog that lives alone on a regular diet of meal worms that are occasionally calcium/d3 powder dusted. Her enclosure is a ten gallon vertical tank that has coconut shavings and sphagnum moss, and artificial plant, rock, and small under tank heater.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/786597...7648690749214/
    Last edited by Plethodon; February 24th, 2015 at 07:48 PM.

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  3. #2
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    Hey, did you mean to post this in the Tree Frogs forum? I'm sure someone can move it.

    There's a list of questions that might help more knowledgeable people narrow down what could be wrong with your frog. Answering them should help. If I was you I'd look online for a local herp or exotic vet and ask them if they see frogs because the white stuff does not sound normal or healthy.

    QUESTIONS

    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
    2----please include a photo of the frog
    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
    5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
    8----what is the typical humidity level
    9----what temperature is maintained
    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    13---what kind of water is used
    -----for misting
    -----for the frog's soaking dish
    -----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
    15---enclosure set up:
    -----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
    -----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
    -----describe wood, bark , and background materials
    16---when is the last time the frog ate
    17---have you found poop lately
    18---how often is the frog fed
    19---what size feeder is given
    20---what other feeders are used as treats
    21---what is the frog's main food source
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often
    24---calcium - what brand and how often
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
    26---approximate age of the frog
    27---how long have you owned the frog
    28---who cared for the frog before you
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
    -----for how long
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
    -----for what
    -----name of medication
    -----for how long
    -----what dose
    -----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

  4. This member thanks elly for this post:


  5. #3
    Plethodon
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    It was moved, thank you.., Can you tell me anything else on how I can help my frog?

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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Plethodon View Post
    It was moved, thank you.., Can you tell me anything else on how I can help my frog?
    Answering the questions elly posted will help us do this. It could be temperature related if the UTH is the only heat source, or impaction or diet related if you are only feeding mealworms with nothing else, or something else altogether, but without some more detailed info we can't really make accurate recommendations.

  7. #5
    Plethodon
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    Who is Elly? Also, I was reading fungus treatments and put a heat light over her cage for a couple minutes ( didn't leave it on there) and the spots almost seem to be clearing up a little...
    I have fed her on meal worms since about a month after I got her, and she seemed to be doing fine before... I am posting a link to a site with her picture so you can see, not sure if the fungal treatment stuff will help, but I'll try!

  8. #6
    Plethodon
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues


  9. #7
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    Elly is the first person who replied to your post, and she posted this list of questions to help us understand the whole situation so we can offer educated advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by elly View Post
    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
    2----please include a photo of the frog
    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
    5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
    8----what is the typical humidity level
    9----what temperature is maintained
    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    13---what kind of water is used
    -----for misting
    -----for the frog's soaking dish
    -----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
    15---enclosure set up:
    -----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
    -----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
    -----describe wood, bark , and background materials
    16---when is the last time the frog ate
    17---have you found poop lately
    18---how often is the frog fed
    19---what size feeder is given
    20---what other feeders are used as treats
    21---what is the frog's main food source
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often
    24---calcium - what brand and how often
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
    26---approximate age of the frog
    27---how long have you owned the frog
    28---who cared for the frog before you
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
    -----for how long
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
    -----for what
    -----name of medication
    -----for how long
    -----what dose
    -----was medication prescribed by a herp vet
    Mealworms alone aren't a complete diet, plus their "shells" can cause impactions because they are tough. A better staple for a whites tree frog would be crickets (feeder roaches are great too, but can be harder to find). Whatever you feed, it should be supplemented with calcium and vitamin dust to prevent nutritional deficiencies.

  10. #8
    Plethodon
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    I originally used meal worms because they can't escape the bowl and I was afraid of her becoming impacted with substrate... but I am a first-time amphibian owner and I will take your advice. I am also going to try a basic a bacterial infection (because I'm pretty sure that's what it is) treatment from frogsafe.org to try and help her out. The on/off use of the heat lamp use seems to be helping her out (she's moving more), but I still can't identify the stuff that appeared so suddenly on her back, can you help me identify it? The link is posted... note the fact that she's holding her legs in an awkward position as well... Is this a sign of something else?

    UPDATE-
    She has also started twitching a bit, is this red-leg? Or am I over-reacting?

  11. #9
    Plethodon
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    After heat treatment green color has returned... Hoping she'll make it through the night
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/786597...57648690749214

  12. #10
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    You can bowl feed crickets you just need a taller bowl. I would take out the sphagnum too since that's the biggest impaction risk.

    What is the temperature and humidity in the tank? If she's been too cold that could explain why she's looking better under a heat lamp. Unfortunately heat mats aren't an ideal heat source for frogs so her environment could have been too cold. It also seems strange that she spends all her time in the water bowl, so I wonder if the humidity is too low?

    Also, is the 10 gallon just a quarantine tank while she's young? An adult whites tree frog will need a bigger tank than that. Sanitation issues that result from a small tank can lead to health problems.

    Have you seen her shed before? It's hard to tell from the picture but the white on her back could be shedding skin.
    Last edited by Crispy42; February 24th, 2015 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Ask about shedding

  13. #11
    Plethodon
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    Yes she is still fairly small.. I don't have humidity or temperature gauges, I assumed that since she was thriving under these conditions for several months that they were not the problem. But now that I have become better informed, I intend on getting her the further supplies she needs, assuming that she pulls through this, which I hope she does. She was delivered to me as a surprise birthday gift with supplies, and her previous owner reported that she did well under the conditions I provided for her (minus the heat pad, which I purchased when I noticed her inactivity, and assumed that lack of heat was the problem). However, now that this has happened, I am much more well informed about the specifics of caring for her species. Thank you for your kind advice, it will be heeded and I will be making a trip to Petco as soon as possible to pick her up a larger tank and proper heating/ humidity system.

  14. #12
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    I hate to sound abrupt but I think your frog is on her way out... She's bloated, mottled, "secreting mucus", her legs are definitely not normal, and she's starting to twitch? My guess is she's either impacted, toxing out, or suffering from MBD, parasites or a combo thereof. If she didn't have the bloating, twitching and leg thing I'd say she was trying to gear down for winter and go into hibernation; WTFs in the wild will cover themselves in a mucousy slime to prevent water loss before they hole up for the winter. So unless the bloating was her taking on water prior to this slime coating... but like I said, the leg thing and twitching...

    Most of what goes wrong with frogs occurs due to poor management practices-- wrong heat and temp (you are not monitoring it), wrong feeder choice (mealworms are not a good for WTFs), water quality (what are you using? Is it dechlorinated?), supplementation (what are you using and how often?) housing (size?) substrate (moss is a huge impaction risk) I'm sorry but you should have done your research before things got this far. I know this sounds harsh, but it is a tough lesson to learn. PLEASE do answer the questions posted to you, twice now, as this is the only way people will be able to help you now or in the future. READ HERE PLEASE http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...enclosure.html

    If there is any chance at all for this poor frog to survive you need to do a few things ASAP:

    --Get her in a quarantine tank (if she is small a 5.5 gallon tank or 10 gallon will work)
    --Use plain white paper towels on the floor
    --Provide a fake plant(s) and hiding spot for her- make sure all decor is non-porous and easy to disinfect.
    --Get her a water dish that is deep enough for her to soak up to her chin when seated-- USE DECHLORINATED WATER (either tap water or spring water with Reptisafe is good- Petco carries Reptisafe) Use this same water for misting her enclosure. (Water spots are nothing compared to the frogs health, so I personally avoid distilled- my preference)
    --Get a good DIGITAL temperature and humidity gauge-- avoid the cheapo ones sold by Petco.
    --Safe temps are around 80F daytime and 73-75F nightime. Watch out for habitat drying out when using paper towels for substrate and maintaining proper heat...If you can't keep proper humidity in the smaller tanks with paper towels for substrate then MIST more often. Avoid completely covering the top of the cage with anything, a sick frog will especially need good ventilation, if you do opt to cover the top of the cage to maintain humidity make sure it is not more than half, and use something that is not going to catch on fire!
    --Lighting can be blue daytime and red nighttime bulbs suspended above the cage in a Fluker's mini double dome by a lamp stand (the under cage lamp stands are best).
    --Get medium-small crickets (no larger than space between the frogs eyes) and ditch the mealworms. Crickets can be dusted with Reptocal (Cal/D3) daily-- one day a week use a multi-vitamin instead. Crickets can be kept in a separate keeper with cardboard egg crate, a plastic lid with cottonballs soaked in spring water, and another dish of Fluker's high calcium dry cricket diet and original Cheerios.

    Do all these things BEFORE you invest in a new larger tank. Your frog is looking critical so time is of the essence. Good luck!
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  16. #13

    Default White's/Dumpy Tree Frog Having Issues

    I agree with everything said above, as harsh as it may sound. White's can withstand a lot of error in there care, however, there is a limit. Just because the frog didn't show signs of ill health prior to your receiving it, does not necessarily equate to proper conditions. My guess would be it was improperly cared for from day one and you were "grandfathered" in. The twitching could also be a sign of calcium deficiency. I would definitely switch to crickets as a primary food and dust with each feeding.


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