New White's Tree Frog possible issue

[Rainrad2002]

Hello everyone, we received this White's tree frog about a week ago. She seems to have some sort of problem with her eye, I am including a photo. Is this anything we should be concerned with and will it heal itself with proper care? I am pretty sure it was like that when she came in her Fedex box, she was skinnier and has fattened up pretty well in the last few days.

She is in a Exo Terra 18X18X24 terrarium with cypress shavings, water bowl for soaking, tree branches, and fake plants. The temp range in there is 72 at the bottom to 84 at the top in the basking area (which she never uses). The humidity has been around 40%, we have been misting the cage every day trying to raise it up but I think due to the heat in the house being on all the time for winter we have had problems getting the humidity up any higher. I just ordered hydroballs and frog moss to change the bottom of the tank to water with the moss above it to hopefully keep the humidity up a bit. Obviously we will continue to modify the terrarium to make it as perfect for her as possible.....

Anyway, she seems fine other than the dark spot on her left eye (the right eye is normal) and has been eating well. I just noticed a red spot under her ear that I dont think was there before, but I am pretty sure her eye was like that when she arrived last week, have any of you seen this before?

[irThumper]

Hi there, welcome to FF! I'm sorry your frog is having problems, and I hate to say it but from what I'm seeing I believe you need to seek a vet specialized in frogs. I don't know what's up with her eye, it's strange (possibly bruising) but that red bump is definitely not normal, and from what I can see of her skin I wouldn't be surprised if she has some kind of a bacterial or other infection going on as well Only a test will tell you for certain.

I don't know much about the Cypress chips, but I know that certain things can be dangerous for frogs, from an ingestion standpoint and also toxic reaction. Moss is also a big NO for White's tree frogs in particular, as they can easily swallow the bits and become impacted, which could possibly lead to death without surgical intervention. Most people would recommend a safe substrate like eco-earth. Check out the White's tree frog care sheet here for more info Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea

I wouldn't worry about 40% humidity, it's on the lower end of normal but perfectly fine (good average is 50%), especially if you mist 2-3 times a day and make sure the frog has a suitable soaking dish. Watch out for those cheap, non-digital, humidity gauges if you use them; they are frequently very inaccurate.

Please check out this thread http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...enclosure.html it has a list of questions that will help more folks here get you the info you need.

[irThumper]

Forgot to say that from the get go, and definitely at this point, she should be kept in a simple hospital tank set up, with plain white damp paper towels for substrate, a few plastic plants to hide in, and of course her water dish (be sure to include a thermometer) and her lights. A quarantine set up like this will go a long way to keeping pathogens out of a finished tank set up and make it easier to observe your frog, her poo and etc.

[Rainrad2002]

Thank you irThumper, I guess I should have mentioned that I meant live moss that does not have loose bits. I have read the care sheet and they mention using sphagnum moss on top of the false bottom which is what I am going to do. I will put her in a quarantine tank and keep an eye on her, I have a vet nearby I can use if necessary.

[irThumper]

Guess I need to reread the care sheet... Many White's owners say "No moss is good moss" where WTFs are concerned. Sorry for the confusion!

[Rainrad2002]

Believe me I understand the impaction concern, we have a number of reptiles and amphibians and I am always paranoid about what I put in there. Impaction is not fun. When using a false bottom in the tank what else can you use that won't just fall into the water? I do have some of that fake moss carpet stuff but I am more worried about that causing her problems than the live moss. If you think 40% is OK then maybe I will not bother with the false bottom and just get some eco earth to put in there. I looked up the cypress shavings (I already had some sitting around) and it is recommended in many places for WTF but after putting it in I don't like it. It sticks to her and some of the pieces seem a little big.

I think when winter is over the overall humidity in the house will go up and might fix the humidity anyway.

[irThumper]

I use Repticarpet for some of my girls, it is antibacterial and pretty easy to maintain. I also strew fake silk leaves on the floor and have some glazed ceramic flower pot saucers for them to rest on if they want to get off the carpeting. Humidity is fine so I'd keep it simple as possible. When you use natural substrates they can become bacterial breeding grounds if you already have an issue. Too much humidity for these guys is definitely not good, as you're looking at respiratory and bacterial problems. WTFs do handle a wide range of temps/humidity/environments, but since you already have problems with your gal it's much better to err on the side of caution. :/

[irThumper]

I wouldn't use the moss mat kind of carpeting, I've seen stories where people are having problems with it eventually falling apart and then catching their frogs limbs and trapping them like a web

[Rainrad2002]

I just got a reply from the seller, they mentioned that it may be a cricket bite and that I should keep an eye on her. I have been keeping crickets in there but they are in a glass bowl which supposedly they are not supposed to jump out of, but who knows. I know I am going to loose sleep tonight worrying about that frog.

[Frogger00]

The dark spot on the eye could be a bruise. Not sure what you could do about it though. I've tried a few different feeders.
Crickets: only the small ones(2 week old). The big ones can cause damage as others have said and they are gross. My one frog loves crickets the most. One downside is they are difficult to keep alive.

Meal worms: my one guy is pretty obsessed with these worms. They are easy to keep and breed. Sometimes my frogs don't recognize them as food though.

Hornworms: these worms make your frogs poop like crazy! Nutritious, and easy to digest. Hard to keep alive.

Pinky mice: a good treat. Hard to digest.

Phoenix worms: my frogs wouldn't even touch them and instead proceeded to push them away with their hands.

Hope this helps! I personally like meal worms best. And they are a bit fatty so they will put some weight on your tiny frog! Good luck.


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[irThumper]

The downside to mealworms and superworms, though, is the excessive chitin (undigestible material) to meat ratio. That and these things have been said to be able to chew their way out of delicate species (which adult WTFs are not, but still)

[Rainrad2002]

The dark spot on the eye could be a bruise. Not sure what you could do about it though. I've tried a few different feeders.
Crickets: only the small ones(2 week old). The big ones can cause damage as others have said and they are gross. My one frog loves crickets the most. One downside is they are difficult to keep alive.

Meal worms: my one guy is pretty obsessed with these worms. They are easy to keep and breed. Sometimes my frogs don't recognize them as food though.

Hornworms: these worms make your frogs poop like crazy! Nutritious, and easy to digest. Hard to keep alive.

Pinky mice: a good treat. Hard to digest.

Phoenix worms: my frogs wouldn't even touch them and instead proceeded to push them away with their hands.

Hope this helps! I personally like meal worms best. And they are a bit fatty so they will put some weight on your tiny frog! Good luck.


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Thank you for all the info! I usually have mealworms around for the reptiles, will get some more and offer them to her. Also like the waxworms for fattening up..... I tried to get her to take a thawed pinky mouse but she wouldn't eat it, will try again next time I thaw one for the bearded dragon.

[Frogman1031]

This has become a very interesting little thread ! Anyway welcome to the frog forum ! I agree with the others in saying that the lesion was probably cause by some sort of bite and the bruising possibly spread to the eye. Remember to keep a close eye on it to make sure that it doesn't get bigger . Keep on fattening her up. They aren't called Dumpy tree frogs for nothing !

irThumper, Martha is adorable! As are all your white's!

I'm getting jealous of everyone's nice big tanks! My babies are still stuck in that cramped 18x18x18 . Will have to wait until the next White Plains expo to (finally) get a 24x18x24.

Good luck with your new frog and I hope her little injury gets better

[irThumper]

This has become a very interesting little thread ! Anyway welcome to the frog forum ! I agree with the others in saying that the lesion was probably cause by some sort of bite and the bruising possibly spread to the eye. Remember to keep a close eye on it to make sure that it doesn't get bigger . Keep on fattening her up. They aren't called Dumpy tree frogs for nothing !

irThumper, Martha is adorable! As are all your white's!

I'm getting jealous of everyone's nice big tanks! My babies are still stuck in that cramped 18x18x18 . Will have to wait until the next White Plains expo to (finally) get a 24x18x24.

Good luck with your new frog and I hope her little injury gets better

Lol, thanks Eli! ^_^ Martha was actually a real pain in the butt tonight... wouldn't eat her worm! Not even in half! I got so disgusted I took it out, dumped 5 big juicy crickets in her house, and told her to move her flabby hiney and go hunting... oog!

I'm slowly moving my frogs up in cage size as well. Shirley and Honey are now in a 10 gallon, and Martha will hopefully go from her 10 gallon to her Exo-terra medium-tall this weekend. Lucy will have to wait to go in with Martha until her own QT is up and I see what's going on with her fecal exam (I'm getting a second opinion... well if she gives me another sample that doesn't get baked under the heat lamp I'll get a 2nd opinion!)

[Rainrad2002]

The spot looks slightly better today, and I put a dab of non pain relieving neosporin on it this morning to help it along. Hopefully it will just continue to get better.....

[elly]

This has become a very interesting little thread ! Anyway welcome to the frog forum ! I agree with the others in saying that the lesion was probably cause by some sort of bite and the bruising possibly spread to the eye. Remember to keep a close eye on it to make sure that it doesn't get bigger . Keep on fattening her up. They aren't called Dumpy tree frogs for nothing !

irThumper, Martha is adorable! As are all your white's!

I'm getting jealous of everyone's nice big tanks! My babies are still stuck in that cramped 18x18x18 . Will have to wait until the next White Plains expo to (finally) get a 24x18x24.

Good luck with your new frog and I hope her little injury gets better

Or at least keep fattening her up until her ear-rolls show up and then stop. They don't need to be too fat!

[irThumper]

Keeping fingers crossed for her!

[Frogger00]

The downside to mealworms and superworms, though, is the excessive chitin (undigestible material) to meat ratio. That and these things have been said to be able to chew their way out of delicate species (which adult WTFs are not, but still)

It's true they are not too nutritious. I always have some on hand for the sugar gliders so give the frogs a few each week. I like to keep a variety of foods. I've never heard of the meal worms being able to eat the animal inside out. Super worms though, I couldn't say as I've never tried them.


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[irThumper]

It's true they are not too nutritious. I always have some on hand for the sugar gliders so give the frogs a few each week. I like to keep a variety of foods. I've never heard of the meal worms being able to eat the animal inside out. Super worms though, I couldn't say as I've never tried them.


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I wonder if Myth Busters has ever worked with this one, lol :P I did find this, though, so I guess close enough! Dinner’s Revenge: mealworms that survive in the stomach, then eat their way out of predators - Boing Boing No clue about the beetles themselves though... I know there are some kind of worms/beetles they use to strip carcasses for taxidermy work (*shudder*). I guess a healthy frog might be perfectly fine, but I still wouldn't give them to a convalescing one, just in case

[Frogger00]

Interesting article. I think both my frogs are so vicious they probably kill the worm before it even gets down. Here's a pic of one of my two eating my hand instead of the hornworm... Lol


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