*GRAPHIC* Necropsy photo, sudden death of year old Pixie female, Causes?

[BubbaGump]

Complete devastation came over me when I found my little sweet not moving in her "bath". She had been in there for 24 hours, moving around fine, but had been in one position for a while and something made me touch her on the head gently to say hi. (otherwise never handled). Well, she didn't move.....Oh no......I got the long tongs....and pushed her a bit and nothing, she was stiff. Only just over 6 weeks of ownership.....words cannot describe the feeling of failure.

I got her around Christmas time, was told she was a male, but there was no way based on size, she did have male coloration though.

All that aside, she was fed a diet of mice in her last home. I put her on a diet of crix, hornworms, a few supers (like 3 in a month) and a few butters and night crawlers. Everything I read was to not feed them mice so I didn't. But was the damage already done?

From the ( amateur) necropsy photo, fatty liver? Would that cause sudden death without warning. She was pooping well and eating well up till yesterday when she did not want dinner. Lots of gas in her intestine (huge bubble that we had to burst) and maybe an inch and a half of "poop" but I would not say she was impacted. The gas could have been from sitting for a while after she passed on. Oh and she was on cocoa fiber and there was no evidence that any was in her bowel at the time of death.

Thanks all for reading and learning with me.

[gut]

I'm sorry for your loss. The worst thing really is not knowing what caused it. But it sounds like you did everything right to keep her happy. You mention a previous home, could it be possible she was old when you got her?

[BubbaGump]

Reptile store was where I got her - they got her as a baby about a year or so ago and I do remember seeing her there, smaller so the timeline is right. I cannot help but think it was something I did or didn't do right. Thank you for your message - I feel like **** today and had a bad night after finding her and then having to cut her open like that but I did it so I can do better and LEARN - her last gift to me. How sad. She passed away facing me at the computer, maybe she was trying to tell me something but she was in a normal position, head propped up out of the water when she passed (not listless or lethargic).

[gut]

Again, I'm sorry to hear that. :'c At least she got a nice soak in before she passed, frogs love their baths. You were brave to do a necropsy, I don't think I could do that.

[Thevacantface]

Sorry for your loss, I was absolutely devastated at the loss of mine two weeks ago. I find your decision to try and self perform a necropsy a bit off-putting. Without a background in veteranary medicine, there is little that you would be able to decipher aside from a severe impaction, obvious tumors, or a rupture in the stomach or intestine. Were you truly looking for answers, you should have taken her to a vet.

As far as I've been able to determine, my frog toxed out. Based on some articles I've read, they seem to produce a lot more toxins such as amonia and nitrates if they have been eating a lot. If there wasn't a good enough supply of fresh water to flush the frogs system, then it may have toxed. I understand the feeling of failure, and I wish I could go back and fix it. I thought that changing my frogs 3 gallons of water in her 50/50 tank once a week, and it had an in tank carbon filter, would be enough. It was changed just 3 days prior and looked very clean, but with the volume of food she had been eating over the previous few weeks, it apparently wasn't. After testing the water quality, it was apparent that if nothing else, it wasn't a healthy place for her to be swimming. She seemed so happy and healthy, no signs of any issues.

If your frog only had a small bowl, the buildup of toxins could have been quick. I know they like to soak and swim a bit, if they are in their water for more than a couple hours, it should be changed. If they climb in on their own, maybe they ate trying to flush their system and you should give them new water shortly after. Also, regular soaks in clean water should be given just to keep them hydrated and flushed out.

[BubbaGump]

Just because I am not a vet does not mean I cannot try to seek answers ( I have emailed the pics to exotic vets) so that I and others can learn, move forward and do better for the next one, if I ever get another (am afraid to now as all the emotions this has caused). Maybe even have some answers so I can sleep. I did not have the funds for a professional necropsy. Just discarding the body was not an option for me, not knowing if it was the substrate that caused a blockage, etc. We don't have to be professionals in the field to explore, learn, doccument. etc. I won't put those limitations on myself, but won't critique those who cannot "go there".

Moving ahead, Toxing out does seem likely, with the compromised liver, she would not have had the ability to fight off bacteria, etc. I changed the water every day but didn't if she was blissful in the "tub" (large 10" x 10" rubbermaid container) as it says do not handle them, so I would wait till she got out, and then changed the water. Thank you for the info - all very useful and I will take it and be meticulous with the next one. She was my first. I tried hard and don't want to believe I caused her death but I have to be open to this possibility.

p.S she ate a lot too.

[mattfish]

Sorry for your loss!!! in the wild these frogs Never sit in water year round. in fact even if there is standing water they usually will sit in damp soil under shrubs instead. Water has alot of bacteria in it. even if you add carbon or not. you need to add an ultraviolet sterilizing unit to the water to destroy bacteria. you can have a water bowl that "looks" clean BUT it most definately is not unless you clean it regularly with bleach. coming from a pet store is my big red flashing light to the possible cause of your frogs sudden death. Pet stores get new critters in all the time and emplyees go from cage to cage speading problems as they go. certain critters can harbor diseases that has little to no effect on them but is deadly to other critters near by. when the petstore employee goes from cage to cage without sterilizing hands or tools is the problem. This sounds like what happened here. i dont think you did anything wrong. It was already festering in the frog when you got it and the frog sucumbed to the damage. Sorry to hear about your lose. next time only buy a baby frog from a pet store or buy an adult from a private collector. that would be your best plan.

[BubbaGump]

Thank you for your compassion, understanding and sensitivity to this tragic occurrence. Also Thank you for your added knowledge on this matter. She was in a 50/50 water/dry land terrarium with a waterfall where she came from (pet store). So yes, problems already starting for sure. I will do better for the next one, I am feeling better now and not like a murderer......I may get a baby when the time is right. For now I will learn as much as I can and this baby will have a better life because of the sacrifices others had to make to teach us (sadly!) Thank you to EVERYONE who had something to ad, all appreciated!!!! Great bunch!

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Sorry for your loss I did find something similar to what happened to yours.http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...-pictures.html Could yours have been egg bound? It could have been to young to pass/get rid off the eggs, and died trying to get them out in the water

[BubbaGump]

TY for finding that. She had a LOT of eggs, but being new and not knowing what a lot of eggs or too many eggs looks like I was not sure. I find all this info so useful and I was glad to see another amateur necropsy done. We need more info on these frogs, even if we just compare our findings.....that is how early medicine started - curious minds who wanted answers.

[flybyferns]

So very sorry for your Pixie Very sad.

Just curious ? Could you possibly share with us what method of euthanasia was used?

This might be a good opportunity to share amphibian euthanasia procedures ?
I have had to euthanatize tree frogs but never a frog of this size , as I have never kept a pixie or pac.

Thanks