White's Tree Frog sick behavior? Pics*

[SamanthaFox]

I agree with getting that heat up there, 77-85F is good for daytime and 72-75F at night is fine (they can handle a wide range of temps but needs to be consistent). Humidity should be right around 50%+/- The tank is pretty sparse, I'd definitely give much more in the way of plants and spaces to hide, that and I'd switch to a different substrate. You might have to look into getting a taller tank and locating it in a quieter part of the house. Do you keep the lights on a 12 hrs on 12 hrs off cycle?

I'm thinking you definitely have a male (check for nuptial pads at the base of his thumbs). At two years of age your frogs should be fully grown and mature, it could be he's displaying these behaviors because he's of breeding age and stressed. I have a male whose not very interested in food at the moment either, though there seems to be nothing wrong with him. He has a female companion but the two don't seem interested in each other at all from a breeding perspective, even though they are both apparently at a stage of breeding readiness. The female keeps oogling a small male in the tank next door and they both seem to want to get in with each other, so who knows! O_o

He looks baggy on his sides too, like he's lacking some chow... do you know when the last time is you saw him eat actually? Or poop? Or shed? You need to be dusting their feeders once a week with a good Cal/Vit D3 supplement and once a week with a multi vitamin powder, even if you gut load the crickets.

As for red leg... it doesn't look like broken capillaries, but there is quite a bit of pink, could be from all the activity though. Best thing is to check with a vet like you're doing. I hope the vet has some good news for you!

HI there Thumper---I was ironically watching your youtube videos last night. I have to say, I loved hearing your enthusiasm when you talk to your froggies. It's so cute! It was oddly comforting to watch those last night. BTW--what happened to your sHEila?

I took Nicodemus to the herp vet last friday. I had researched this dr and am glad we went. She is definitely a lover of frogs! She has her own organization called Geo herps: https://www.facebook.com/GeoHerps
Anyway, she said he looked pretty red, but no broken blood vessels. She thinks he did get some kind of infection, but that the outlook was good since he was so alert and even angry when she was examining him (croaked, throat puffed up and he peed!). So she gave me an all-encompassing antibiotic but said injections are better SO she gave him his first shot in the belly, my husband and I did the second one (was difficult) and I have been taking him back to the vet every other day for them to do the injections for free since I feel like I am hurting him while trying to keep him still. He has 4 more to go.

She also said he looks dehydrated so she gave me an electrolyte powder to dissolve in distilled water and soak him in twice a day. I have been doing it once a day (very busy) but I leave the solution in his cage so he self-treats. We have put in a few dusted crickets but he only ate one once. The are still 3 roaming around in there. I am concerned because his edema seems worse---here are some pics:



ALso here is the new tank that the other frog is in now...can't wait to put my Nico back with his pal Peenuhlope..which is most likely a boy I think too haha.

sorry if it's rotating...don't know why that is.
Anyway, will update again soon. BTW, what are some good ways to up the humidity? Foggers? sphagnum moss?

[teslas intern]

The easiest way to increase humidity is having standing water and or moist substrate in the tank. I keep my substrate moist enough that I don't even need to mist to keep the humidity up to reasonable levels, but keep in mind I use a clay based substrate so it doesn't decompose... It sounds like you maintain your tank regularly so I'd say go ahead and dump some water in your substrate, and use a slightly deeper layer that will hold more water. Also is look into leaf litter for covering the substrate, it will look more natural and help keep froggies clean, as it doesn't stick to their skin. Best of luck!

[Lija]

Hm... That doesn't look good at all, glad you found a vet, what antibiotics are you using?
To increase humidity you just need to adjust your tank a bit, you don't have to have standing water, in fact it's very dangerous to have standing water, its equal bacterial infections and much more.

What is your current humidity? Temps? What type of water do you use? Have you seen the poop lately and how did it look?

for qt tank, I see you put papertowel on a back, you need to out a bigger plant in there, and cover all sides of a tank. This way you eliminate a stress factor and it will help him heal.

I have a few more suggestions here, but I'll wait fir you to answer my qs.

[SamanthaFox]

Hm... That doesn't look good at all, glad you found a vet, what antibiotics are you using?
To increase humidity you just need to adjust your tank a bit, you don't have to have standing water, in fact it's very dangerous to have standing water, its equal bacterial infections and much more.

What is your current humidity? Temps? What type of water do you use? Have you seen the poop lately and how did it look?

for qt tank, I see you put papertowel on a back, you need to out a bigger plant in there, and cover all sides of a tank. This way you eliminate a stress factor and it will help him heal.

I have a few more suggestions here, but I'll wait fir you to answer my qs.

HI--thanks for suggestions. I just can't get the humidity up in my new tank. I bought some sphagnum moss and sprayed it today. I was thinking I should get a heating lamp since my UVB light isn't a warming one.

As far as the quarantine: The RX is amikacin. The vet gave him his 4th shot of it today and she said she thinks he looks much better and to do the electrolyte soak only every other day. He still isn't really eating. I think in the past almost 2 weeks, he has eaten 1 cricket. I tried to tempt him with a waxworm today (first time ever) no luck. I will try tonight. Since being in qt he has only pooped once, a week ago, after his first appt/shot. It looked normal. I typically use bottled drinking purified water, but his soak is distilled with the electrolyte powder dissolved. I will get him more cover in the quarantine tank. He is still so active and seems to like the warmth of my hand (i wear gloves and it's only when moving him to do the soak). The qt humidity is 50%, and temp is 71 degrees. I am anxious to put him in the new cage with his buddy because it has a lot more cover and I think he will like it. But I will wait til the meds are finished.

Any other tips for temp/humidity are welcome. On the large tank with the other frog, I have a heating pad on one side but the temp (gauge is on opposite lower corner) only varies from 72-75 degrees. The humidity is only 25% in that one and that's with me covering half the top of the screen with siran wrap and towel, with the damp moss, and a running water filter/waterfall thing. I was thinking maybe its because this tank has the front opening doors and more air is getting in?

[Lija]

No, take the moss out, it's an impaction risk.

humidity/temps - what are you using to measure them?

To increase humidity you just need to cover more screen top. You can completely cover the top with foil ( it helps with temps better then wrap.), then cut the hole for the lamp, diameter of lamp + a little bit. Duck tape the foil to the screen cover, from outside, this way it's more stable.

but before ou do anything make sure your temps/humidity are actually off, if you use analog gauges they are very well known to show whatever.

does the poop look normal? Have you ever did fecal testing?

Was the frog ever in the new tank? You need more sitting spots ( branches) some more leafy hanging things on a sides to make them well more comfortable.

Have another suggestion - get some reptiboost ( reptiaid ) by fluckers, dust his food with it. That thing is really good to get them better.

[SamanthaFox]

I took the moss out. So much contradiction among sources online. I didn't like the moss anyway though--what a mess.

I will try the foil thing and possibly a heat lamp. For the new cage, I am using a digital hygrometer so it's probably accurate. As for the qt, I only yesterday took the old analog gauges out of the garage where the humidity read 10%--so I am pretty sure it's accurate since it now says 60%.

Nico has only pooped one time since being quarantined and it looked totally normal. Have not done fecal testing but I trust the doc we are taking him to, and she will see him tomorrow for another shot. Nico was never in the new tank.

I will pick up some reptiboost. Thanks for suggestions--what is you opinion on waxworms? I usually only feed him crickets but he doesn't seem interested. I tried putting a waxworm dangling in front of him--he wasn't interested. I don't know how he is so alert only having eaten one small cricket in the past 2 weeks.

[Lija]

Fecal testing in your case I don't think is absolutely needed, but it's better to do that for both frogs to be sure and have a piece of mind. Worms are not a reason for your problem. Usually that test is done when you just get frogs.

waxworms are great for your sick one, they are fattening and just what the guy need. When you take him to a vet, im sure she'll assess the situation. Ask her about if you need to force feed him, its easier to see that in person how bad the shape is and if he needs to be stuffed asap or it still can wait.

Usually sick frogs don't eat, just like humans, when you're sick you dont really hungry, the problem with that is without nutrition the immune system and all systems really are starting to shut down, the body just don't have enough strength to fight what it needs to and we have to resort to force feeding, your vet should assess if a frog is there or not yet. Ask about it.

Moss - yes in theory it should increase humidity, but do anything for a bigger tank you need to have tons of it and keep it moist at all the time ( not happening ). Moss if ingested is one of the main impaction reasons. Even if you feed in a separate cage, the frog might ingest it while shedding. So really potential benefits are minor when you risk dealing with impaction in frogs. Better be safe then sorry.

Yes, try foil and cover more, if you still not getting it, then perhaps you should either invest in a fogger or mist the tank more.