White's Tree Frog sick behavior? Pics*

[SamanthaFox]

Hi-I'm a new poster to this site. I have had 2 white's tree frogs purchased from Petco almost 2 years ago. I believe one to be male (Nicodemus) and the other slightly smaller one to be female (Peenuhlope). We have an unconventional tank for them, only because it was a huge glass tank on sale. Below is the picture of their home:

The tank has a fairly large water bowl (left corner) with a filter/waterfall thing. The tank is cleaned about every 3 weeks. Substrate is coconut husk, fake plants, one real wood log, and rocks. The temperature is around 65-70 degrees, we need to do a better job with the humidity, especially since the top of the tank is all screen. I have since placed plastic wrap on half of the tank (not where the lights are). We only feed them crickets, (which we feed dog food and fluker's water quencher calcium fortified gels.) The day light bulb is usually a "zoomed daylight blue reptile bulb 60w UVA" but my husband said they kept burning out so he switched to a 60w "exoterra daytime heat lamp bulb. And the night one is a zoomed red bulb. The tank is unfortunately in a 'high traffic area between our kitchen and living room. We rarely handle them.

MY ISSUE is that for the last 3 days Peenuhlope has been acting strange. She has always been the more jumpy one when we take them out to clean the cage and hides more often than Nico does. But 2 days ago I saw her sitting on the edge of their water bowl awake during the day, and then that night she was jumping into the glass, and even climbing to the top and continually trying to push through the screen (never saw her do that before). I am not sure she is eating, we do leave about 10 crickets in their cage regularly for them to feed on as they please. Last night she was crawling back and forth onthe glass, constantly sliding down and ending up in the substrate, looking like it was hard to move and pull herself up. I know red leg disease seems to be common for them, but couldn't find any info on them crawling around and attempting escape as a symptom. They are usually somewhat tinged pink, and I am fairly busy with 3 young children and a newborn, so forgive me for not knowing if her current color is normal---last night I put her in a 'hospital tank' for quarantine, with clean damp paper towels, a fake plant for hiding, a small water bowl with purified drinking water and the enclosure is in my quiet and warmer room, covered on 3 sides. It sounded like she was crawling up and falling all night, and she didn't eat the 2 small crickets we put in there with her.

So far Nico seems to be fine. He typically sleeps at the top of the tank all day and croaks loudly at night and feeds. I am unsure if she has red leg or some other parasite or is just simply stressed out. Does anyone have advice?
here are pics I took of her in her 'hospital' last night:

does she look sickly or like she has red leg? we are going to buy a more appropriate tank tomorrow. I am just worried about her and also unsure about possibly contamination of Nico if we put her back in with him. PLEASE HELP!

[Frogger00]

Looks like it could be redleg. Keep her in the hospital tank, and try to get the temps up higher, it's a bit too low.


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[SamanthaFox]

Looks like it could be redleg. Keep her in the hospital tank, and try to get the temps up higher, it's a bit too low.

Thanks for the response--any specific advice about treating her red leg? Will a nonstressful environment with clean everything for a few days, do as much good as going to vet to get antibiotics? How long should I keep monitoring her separately? Is red leg caused by bacteria? Or because the tank was too cold? (i've read both). Going to get new tank tomorrow. Will update with any new info.

[Snappi13]

Red leg is caused by multiple causes. One of them being unsanitary tank conditions. The frogs have a hard time digesting there food if the temps are too low in the tank. The temps should range at 75degrees f. At night to 85 for a high during the day with a humidity between 50-70 percent. I would recommend a vet visit ASAP as red leg is deadly and often is caught too late to be treated/ survivable.


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[SamanthaFox]

Just wanted to update:
We are taking the frog to a herp vet in north richland hills tomorrow. I am anxious because we probably won't be able to afford testing, just the evaluation. I am unsure that this is a female now...i was only guessing before. I don't really know if it's red-leg, only because she is still so active, and climbs around at night (her hospital tank is in my bedroom) and I even hear her loudly hitting the sides of the cage. The crickets are still alive and she doesn't seem interested. It has been a whole week that she has been in her hospital tank and not eating. She sits in the water at night, sleeps during the day. Moves around a lot at night. I am posting new pictures but the coloring doesn't seem to have changed. I don't know how she has the energy to move around so much without having eaten.

I was wondering if the dark colored throat is indicative of anything?
Today's pics:

[irThumper]

I agree with getting that heat up there, 77-85F is good for daytime and 72-75F at night is fine (they can handle a wide range of temps but needs to be consistent). Humidity should be right around 50%+/- The tank is pretty sparse, I'd definitely give much more in the way of plants and spaces to hide, that and I'd switch to a different substrate. You might have to look into getting a taller tank and locating it in a quieter part of the house. Do you keep the lights on a 12 hrs on 12 hrs off cycle?

I'm thinking you definitely have a male (check for nuptial pads at the base of his thumbs). At two years of age your frogs should be fully grown and mature, it could be he's displaying these behaviors because he's of breeding age and stressed. I have a male whose not very interested in food at the moment either, though there seems to be nothing wrong with him. He has a female companion but the two don't seem interested in each other at all from a breeding perspective, even though they are both apparently at a stage of breeding readiness. The female keeps oogling a small male in the tank next door and they both seem to want to get in with each other, so who knows! O_o

He looks baggy on his sides too, like he's lacking some chow... do you know when the last time is you saw him eat actually? Or poop? Or shed? You need to be dusting their feeders once a week with a good Cal/Vit D3 supplement and once a week with a multi vitamin powder, even if you gut load the crickets.

As for red leg... it doesn't look like broken capillaries, but there is quite a bit of pink, could be from all the activity though. Best thing is to check with a vet like you're doing. I hope the vet has some good news for you!

[SamanthaFox]

I agree with getting that heat up there, 77-85F is good for daytime and 72-75F at night is fine (they can handle a wide range of temps but needs to be consistent). Humidity should be right around 50%+/- The tank is pretty sparse, I'd definitely give much more in the way of plants and spaces to hide, that and I'd switch to a different substrate. You might have to look into getting a taller tank and locating it in a quieter part of the house. Do you keep the lights on a 12 hrs on 12 hrs off cycle?

I'm thinking you definitely have a male (check for nuptial pads at the base of his thumbs). At two years of age your frogs should be fully grown and mature, it could be he's displaying these behaviors because he's of breeding age and stressed. I have a male whose not very interested in food at the moment either, though there seems to be nothing wrong with him. He has a female companion but the two don't seem interested in each other at all from a breeding perspective, even though they are both apparently at a stage of breeding readiness. The female keeps oogling a small male in the tank next door and they both seem to want to get in with each other, so who knows! O_o

He looks baggy on his sides too, like he's lacking some chow... do you know when the last time is you saw him eat actually? Or poop? Or shed? You need to be dusting their feeders once a week with a good Cal/Vit D3 supplement and once a week with a multi vitamin powder, even if you gut load the crickets.

As for red leg... it doesn't look like broken capillaries, but there is quite a bit of pink, could be from all the activity though. Best thing is to check with a vet like you're doing. I hope the vet has some good news for you!

HI there Thumper---I was ironically watching your youtube videos last night. I have to say, I loved hearing your enthusiasm when you talk to your froggies. It's so cute! It was oddly comforting to watch those last night. BTW--what happened to your sHEila?

I took Nicodemus to the herp vet last friday. I had researched this dr and am glad we went. She is definitely a lover of frogs! She has her own organization called Geo herps: https://www.facebook.com/GeoHerps
Anyway, she said he looked pretty red, but no broken blood vessels. She thinks he did get some kind of infection, but that the outlook was good since he was so alert and even angry when she was examining him (croaked, throat puffed up and he peed!). So she gave me an all-encompassing antibiotic but said injections are better SO she gave him his first shot in the belly, my husband and I did the second one (was difficult) and I have been taking him back to the vet every other day for them to do the injections for free since I feel like I am hurting him while trying to keep him still. He has 4 more to go.

She also said he looks dehydrated so she gave me an electrolyte powder to dissolve in distilled water and soak him in twice a day. I have been doing it once a day (very busy) but I leave the solution in his cage so he self-treats. We have put in a few dusted crickets but he only ate one once. The are still 3 roaming around in there. I am concerned because his edema seems worse---here are some pics:



ALso here is the new tank that the other frog is in now...can't wait to put my Nico back with his pal Peenuhlope..which is most likely a boy I think too haha.

sorry if it's rotating...don't know why that is.
Anyway, will update again soon. BTW, what are some good ways to up the humidity? Foggers? sphagnum moss?

[teslas intern]

The easiest way to increase humidity is having standing water and or moist substrate in the tank. I keep my substrate moist enough that I don't even need to mist to keep the humidity up to reasonable levels, but keep in mind I use a clay based substrate so it doesn't decompose... It sounds like you maintain your tank regularly so I'd say go ahead and dump some water in your substrate, and use a slightly deeper layer that will hold more water. Also is look into leaf litter for covering the substrate, it will look more natural and help keep froggies clean, as it doesn't stick to their skin. Best of luck!

[caerulia]

Hey I'm sorry I can't help with your red-leg question (I'm having some health issues with my own currently) but I wanted to mention that you should probably change their substrate to something that they can't swallow so easily. My herpetology instructor told me that frogs should always have rocks that are bigger than their mouths so they can't swallow them...they could end up swallowing that sand when they eat their food items and over time it can accumulate & block up their digestive system Their is also frog moss, which is awesome, and sphagum moss--but the sphagum can also cause issues if not maintained properly.