Albino Pacman Problems; eating, growing

[Musicpanda]

My Albino Pacman bought as juvenile august 2009 is very small (think golf ball) and he shows no interest in eating, it isn't common that he actually eat when he is supposed to, it goes almost a week and all he eats is at most one cockroach. I've been looking for sickness symptoms, but can't find any, is he stressed? I live in a one-room apartment with little space right now. Sometimes the cockroach climbs on his head without him doing anything, i should probably mention that he for several months have been doing quite little effort trying to hunt, he gives up quickly and seems like if the food don't walk into his jaws he wont catch them. I've been thinking he might have bad vision, but he reacts to me from quite far away when i surprise him by doing something in his terrarium. Plz help me! I've tried different food types, he takes his night baths and don't seem to be in bad shape except that he's so small... so very small... help me, I'm worried i want him to eat and grow. He has these periods in intervals, but he's a poor hunter compared to my vicious female (i think) tennis ball pacman the same age.

Best regards Leonard

[John]

How do you keep him? Temperature (night and day), substrate, heating method, etc etc.

[Musicpanda]

How do you keep him? Temperature (night and day), substrate, heating method, etc etc.

He has a lot of space, coconut substrate twice as deep as his hight, shallow bowl with easy entrance with daily replace water. min 26 Celsius max 29.0 Celsius, heating pads in one side of the terrarium not covering more than 2/5 of the space (7w), i dust spray the frog directly twice a day and the terrarium if needed, it's 80% moist in the air cause i just changed substrate, it's however not an ocean in the substrate, trying to get it down to 70%.

Sometimes at night I hear my albino jumping against the wall, put this is usually when he's been burrowed right next to the wall, so it's probably that he's trying to turn around in a clumsy way.

As I mentioned before he's not good at hunting, I gave him calcium and vitamin D3 as juvenile and still do (when he eats that is), he jumps fine when he wants to but he looks a little thin sometimes (can be that I'm worried and just thinks he looks thin cause my other frog is so big in comparison). When he attacks a prey it's not a long chase as the other frog I have who jump across the whole terrarium while hunting. He doesn't stick out his tongue as long as the other frog, it's more as he opens his mouth and fails, then he gets unsure and I have to encourage him to eat by pushing the roach against his mouth...

I looked at his belly if I could see any "veins" but couldn't see any (it's a symptom for a disease) I have 3 books about the Horned frogs and I've checked all the diseases and it doesn't seem to be any of them. I had a UVB lamp before on the top of their old terrarium, sadly my local pet shop sold it to me saying they used it on their frogs and i bought a UVB 5 lamp... they had that for a couple of months and where doing fine, then I read at the internet it's dangerous to albino frogs using UVB so I got real mad at myself and very sad cause i was very afraid that I now had ruined my frogs vision.

I only searched by it by coincident back then, cause he wouldn't then as well, ignoring all food even while it climbed next or on top of him... As the days went i was very depressed cause I'm a person who lives for animals not everybody commonly care for. But then suddenly i heard a (what is it called) crunch? And he had attacked a coachroach hiding in his terrarium from a failed feeding session, he was really viscous in that moment and i was very happy but now he's back to this...

I'm thinking about if it can be stress? When they were small they lived in the same space with a wall between them that wasn't transparent. I thought since the other frog grew so big maybe my albino was unsure and afraid of the being on "the other side" so now they live in a terrarium separate from each other, with a lot of space for when they get full grown.

If it helps I can photo him from all angels with a high definition camera or even film when i try to feed him?

Best Regard Leonard, all help appreciated!

*UPDATE*
Just tried to feed him, he only opened his mouth as if he was breathing or if like he was in pain, I tried for like 10 minutes, then I thought I could take some pictures but it's not as easy to do on your own as I first thought, he jumps huge distances if I try to grab him, he's to small to lift as my books instructs (in front of their back legs gently around their waist) so I always try to get him in my hand then I cope them around him when I need to move him, he seems really stressed, my big frog doesn't make quite as big deal when I move them to a separate container every second month while cleaning, but the albino he jumps as hell cause he's missing his home... I feel like a bad person cause I don't know what's wrong...

[Hydroxide]

My rescued female pacman is the exact same way. When I first got her, I didn't realize she wasn't showing an interest in food because I'd read somewhere that they are extremely lazy. When I noticed that she was getting kind of thin, I did everything from increasing to decreasing the temperature, humidity, substrate, etc.

Then she went through a *long* stage of hibernation. And I mean, I thought she was -dead- long stage of hibernation. So, finally in my fear, I decided I'd try to 'force' feed her, which didn't turn out forceful at all, considering she wanted it just as soon as I placed it in her mouth.

She's never been an aggressive frog. Never shown any signs of human-hand aggression, never lunges, nothing. She shrieks when startled or stepped on by any number of the mice I've tried but I found that, if you take a stunned/dead(unthawed) mouse and rub it around her mouth, it frustrates her enough to open her mouth. And when she opens wide enough, I place a small portion of the mouse inside of her mouth.

She clamps down almost immediately and will either: A. Spit it out, or B. Start sucking it in.

And that's actually the only way she eats nowadays. I don't know what could have lead to this but I've tried pretty much everything in the book. Try it with your guy and see how he does, but of course, watch your fingers and be careful not to harm the frog.

If he spits it out, give him a rest and try again later. My little lady went from thumb sized to palm sized on this method and is otherwise, happy as a clam. She squats down when I walk past her tank. She starts breathing rapidly(a healthy sign) and even hops away if I disturb her too much.

Just doesn't seem to want to eat. But who knows. Maybe I'm still doing something wrong.

And if you find a more natural cure for your boy, maybe -you- can give ME some pointers. Lol.

PS: I don't feed her solely mice. She has crickets in with her 24/7 and I count them on a daily basis in hopes that they are disappearing. It almost never happens. They all die before she ever even touches them. But, it's still good to have them readily available.

[Musicpanda]

My rescued female pacman is the exact same way. When I first got her, I didn't realize she wasn't showing an interest in food because I'd read somewhere that they are extremely lazy. When I noticed that she was getting kind of thin, I did everything from increasing to decreasing the temperature, humidity, substrate, etc.

Then she went through a *long* stage of hibernation. And I mean, I thought she was -dead- long stage of hibernation. So, finally in my fear, I decided I'd try to 'force' feed her, which didn't turn out forceful at all, considering she wanted it just as soon as I placed it in her mouth.

She's never been an aggressive frog. Never shown any signs of human-hand aggression, never lunges, nothing. She shrieks when startled or stepped on by any number of the mice I've tried but I found that, if you take a stunned/dead(unthawed) mouse and rub it around her mouth, it frustrates her enough to open her mouth. And when she opens wide enough, I place a small portion of the mouse inside of her mouth.

She clamps down almost immediately and will either: A. Spit it out, or B. Start sucking it in.

And that's actually the only way she eats nowadays. I don't know what could have lead to this but I've tried pretty much everything in the book. Try it with your guy and see how he does, but of course, watch your fingers and be careful not to harm the frog.

If he spits it out, give him a rest and try again later. My little lady went from thumb sized to palm sized on this method and is otherwise, happy as a clam. She squats down when I walk past her tank. She starts breathing rapidly(a healthy sign) and even hops away if I disturb her too much.

Just doesn't seem to want to eat. But who knows. Maybe I'm still doing something wrong.

And if you find a more natural cure for your boy, maybe -you- can give ME some pointers. Lol.

PS: I don't feed her solely mice. She has crickets in with her 24/7 and I count them on a daily basis in hopes that they are disappearing. It almost never happens. They all die before she ever even touches them. But, it's still good to have them readily available.

That sounds a lot like my own frog, he's been like this since he was a "child" sometimes better at eating sometimes like now... My big female was the same at one point in her "younger days", then I used a credit card to slide her mouth open according to books. after a little while eating like this she became vicious again.

But I don't know if I want to stress my albino he's to small to handle carefully with the approve stated method, but how in hell do I get his mouth open otherwise... I had one chance yesterday but he didn't open it long enough for me to react... but I will try today as well, what time of the 24cycle do you feed your frog? I feed mine night time before I go to bed.

It's weird that my albino gets so afraid after I've picked him up that if I open his "window" a little while after, if he hasn't burrowed he jumps into the wall to run further away. My female doesn't care much, sometimes she might yell at me a little, so I have a lot of respect for the lady. I almost dream that my albino will bite me one day when he realise that he is a predator...

All answers are welcomed ones! / Leonard

[Musicpanda]

Me and my girlfriend tried to slip his mouth open with a credit card as we once did on my female pacman when she was a juvenile. It didn't work! He wouldn't open his jaws at all and after 5 min he began to croak two times so we let him inside his cage. He ignored the cockroach we originally planed to "plant" inside his mouth even while it climbed his head... Any ideas someone? Is he's jaws jamming cause he think it hurts to open them? I will take some photos of him tomorrow if that will help. I was to afraid to press the card to hard against his jaw as his head was moving a little and I didn't want to stress his neck and other muscles. Are these any symptoms for sickness? I don't know if we have a veterinary for reptiles close to where I live and I have no car...

Best Regard Leonard

[Hydroxide]

The credit card thing generally does stress them. I've -never- used a credit card on my pacman. I had to use it on the near frozen bull-frog I rescued from a friend's pool, but never my pacman.

You should be able to agitate him without having to 'pry' open his mouth. If you can take the cockroach and tease it around your pac's mouth until he opens him mouth(almost like a threat to bite you), ease a *small* portion of the roach into his mouth.

Make sure there's plenty to grasp onto but not too much that you gag the poor fellow.

It may or may not work, but Miss, my frog, takes it like clock work and it never fails(as far as the teasing her lips until she opens her mouth).

Its kinda a crude method and depending on the frog, it may or may not stress them a bit. But. It stresses them a lot less than(or so I believe) than having to pry your little guy's jowls open.

[Musicpanda]

The credit card thing generally does stress them. I've -never- used a credit card on my pacman. I had to use it on the near frozen bull-frog I rescued from a friend's pool, but never my pacman.

You should be able to agitate him without having to 'pry' open his mouth. If you can take the cockroach and tease it around your pac's mouth until he opens him mouth(almost like a threat to bite you), ease a *small* portion of the roach into his mouth.

Make sure there's plenty to grasp onto but not too much that you gag the poor fellow.

It may or may not work, but Miss, my frog, takes it like clock work and it never fails(as far as the teasing her lips until she opens her mouth).

Its kinda a crude method and depending on the frog, it may or may not stress them a bit. But. It stresses them a lot less than(or so I believe) than having to pry your little guy's jowls open.

It doesn't work he ignores it and walk backwards if I try giving him the cockroach by stroking it against his mouth. He never opens his mouth, he never even try to bite my finger, nothing.. it's as if he's tired at life itself... he doesn't get motivation to hunt, only thing he does is jumping around at night into the walls... (or so I hear)

The credit card method is a last solution only, I'm worried he will die soon cause he shows no interest in eating... I'm starting to believe that he might been to weak as a juvenile and would have been eaten up by his siblings there for he's weak in his spirit and body as an almost adult frog.

I've tried stroking food against his lips for weeks, dead, alive, dry, wet, big, small he shows no interest, doesn't move a muscle or even focus his eyes indicating "hey I've seen it and it's not that tempting"...

/Leonard

[Musicpanda]

We've called a herpetologist veterinary, seems like we will have to put him to sleep, would cost me hundreds of dollars to keep him alive, and he probably wouldn't get a worthy life if I did put him trough surgery and cat scan and stuff... I've got a veterinarian to put him to sleep next week. Thx for your efforts to answer my questions. /Leonard

[Ebony]

Im so sorry Leonard. You are doing the right thing for your frog.

[Musicpanda]

Im so sorry Leonard. You are doing the right thing for your frog.

The sad thing is they said over phone that it sounds like his blind, and I know I'm probably responsible for it cause in my books it said nothing about albinos being more sensitive to UVB than other frogs.. it didn't even mentioned UVB and I'm sad that I didn't check what it was... I can't really comprehend what to do with the feeling that it's my fault...

Thx for your concern / Leonard

[Kurt]

So sorry.

[John]

Sorry for your loss Leonard. I hope this doesn't put you off keeping frogs.

[Hydroxide]

You've done everything you possibly could and in all honesty, more. It sounds as though you take phenomenal care of your animals and chances are, it's your best bet.

It's a sad loss but you've still got another frog to strive to keep happy. Everyone makes a mistake at one point and at least you were willing to step up to the plate and attempt to make the frog as comfortable as possible.

You should, personally, be happy that you've done everything in your power to make the animal as happy and as healthy as possible. And although this story doesn't have the fairytale ending, you've been nothing less than a knight in shining armor to your frog. <3

[Musicpanda]

So sorry.

Thanks for your concern.

Sorry for your loss Leonard. I hope this doesn't put you off keeping frogs.

Thanks. No, I think I will get another frog but not a Horned Frog, but I will make sure to read and ask a lot on this community before I buy one.

You've done everything you possibly could and in all honesty, more. It sounds as though you take phenomenal care of your animals and chances are, it's your best bet.

It's a sad loss but you've still got another frog to strive to keep happy. Everyone makes a mistake at one point and at least you were willing to step up to the plate and attempt to make the frog as comfortable as possible.

You should, personally, be happy that you've done everything in your power to make the animal as happy and as healthy as possible. And although this story doesn't have the fairytale ending, you've been nothing less than a knight in shining armor to your frog. <3

I'm trying... I wouldn't want a frog to be unhappy, It's depressing that I thought I would watch the little one grow to an adult who would live for many years, but now he won't. It would take to long to get him fall a sleep if the veterinary would do it, they didn't see it as a priority assignment cause he has no hurry compared to injured animals I guess.

Therefore a relative to me picked him up and will do the job I first thought of but didn't want to do myself, he promised it would be pain free and fast cause he's worked as a hunter... He left with "Alan" the pacman 10 minutes ago, he will get a tombstone in the woods, or at least a rock and flowers from my relatives children. It was better so than have to wait a week, I couldn't stand to watch him for several days knowing he was waiting for the other side of his frog live.

Thanks for your encouraging words everyone.

/Leonard

[Kurt]

You're welcome.