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Thread: Bombina fortinuoptailas

  1. #1
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    Default Bombina fortinuoptailas

    I have recently rehomed a couple of OFBT's to add to my existing 3 . One of them appears to be what is referred to as a "bronze morph". Apparently this is actually a separate sub-species, being Bombina fortinuoptailas.
    Does anyone have any experience of these? Also, is it possible/acceptable that B. fortinuoptailas breeds with B. orientalis?

    Thanks.

    Barry

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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    I've seen the brown ones offered as the Russian form of Orientalis
    Check out my flickr page for photos of my phibs!
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/126686791@N08/

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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    Google them .
    they look like bombina maxima and come from china they don't look like Orientalis
    If you have those and not brown Orientalis try keeping them similar to bombina maxima
    I hope this helps
    Check out my flickr page for photos of my phibs!
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/126686791@N08/

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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    Bombina fortinuoptailas is endemic(?) to the Guangxi province of southeastern China. The common name is the large-spined bell toad. B. fortinuoptailas has been described as a junior synonym for B. microdeladigitora which was a synonym for B. maxima.

    Check out the photo: Large-spined bell toad videos, photos and facts - Bombina fortinuptialis | ARKive

    Also you may be interested in an article:
    Yu, G.-h., J.-x. Yang, M.-w. Zhang, and D.-q. Rao. 2007. Phylogenetic and systematic study of the genus Bombina (Amphibia: Anura: Bombinatoridae): new insights from molecular data. Journal of Herpetology 41: 365–377.
    Terry Gampper
    Nebraska Herpetological Society




    “If we can discover the meaning in the trilling of a frog, perhaps we may understand why it is for us not merely noise but a song of poetry and emotion.”
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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    Cheers are for that ��
    The question is are bombina /f now available or is some one trying to palm brown Orientalis off as a different species.
    We could do with a photo ��
    Check out my flickr page for photos of my phibs!
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/126686791@N08/

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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    In my opinion, unless you have a handy-dandy DNA toolkit, you are probably at the mercy of the person selling them. To me looking at the ARKIVE photo, they look very close to a brownish B. maxima. Taxonomy of amphibians is constantly changing thanks to advances in DNA studies. As far as frog hobbyists are concerned B. fortinuoptailas and B. maxima are the same species.

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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    What prompted my thread was a reference I saw as to the bronze coloured B. Orientalis being a different species (ie B. fortinuoptailas) , but it's clear now that B. fortinuoptailasa are physically different to B. Orientalis.
    All my OFBT's have been rescues - so I don't know anything about their provenance.
    My question is are the bronze form just a colour variation of B. Orientalis - or a sub-species?
    My second question is do they interbreed with the green form?
    One thing that seems to be becoming more commonplace is the availability of the bronze form as I've seen them for sale in a few stockists recently Maybe they are being captive bred in the UK - or is a new wild population being plundered ?

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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    As I stated previously the brown ones are marketed as the Russian form . The Korean form is bright green , the forms will interbreed and you get a mixture of both colors from the offspring . At least I did ( now I just have the Korean form)
    Check out my flickr page for photos of my phibs!
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/126686791@N08/

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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    What we don't want is crossing b/ maxima with b/ fortinuoptailas as that would be detrimental to both species
    Check out my flickr page for photos of my phibs!
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/126686791@N08/

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    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bombina fortinuoptailas

    The genus Bombina is divided into 3 groups: Korean, European and Indo-Malayan. The Korean and European species form a sister taxon (having a single immediate ancestor). B. microdeladigitora and B. fortinuptialis belongs to the Indo-Malayan clade. Because there is very little difference in the DNA of the two previous mentioned species, it has been suggested that they be reassigned as subspecies of B. maxima. The hypothesis that B. orientalis was the sister group of B. maxima was rejected. It is likely there may be enough difference that they will not be able to breed with B. orientalis; and even if they could it would not benefit either species.

    Yu, G., Yang, J., Zhang, M., and Rao, D. (2007). ''Phylogenetic and systematic study of the genus Bombina: New insights from molecular data.'' Journal of Herpetology, 41(3), 365-377.
    Zheng, Y., Fu, J. and Li, S. (2009). ''Toward understanding the distribution of Laurasian frogs: A test of Savage’s biogeographical hypothesis using the genus Bombina.'' Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution, 52(1), 70-83.
    Terry Gampper
    Nebraska Herpetological Society




    “If we can discover the meaning in the trilling of a frog, perhaps we may understand why it is for us not merely noise but a song of poetry and emotion.”
    ---
    Adrian Forsyth

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