New Whites tree Frogs!

[Kazzie]

Hi there! I have had my new whites tree frogs for about... 3 days, and all 3 of them are refusing to eat anything. From all i have read, Whites are little fatties, and mine are not even interested in food. Is this just because they are adapting to their environment?

I keep the temperature in their tank around 75-80 during the day, and 75-65 at night, with a constant humidity of 80%

[elly]

It could be that. Are they in a loud place right now? It might help to cover three sides of the tank with paper to make them feel more secure.
Do you hand feed or bowl feed?
They might be impacted or sick but most likely they're stressed. How old are they? Adults don't need to eat but about twice a week. Younger ones need to be fed more often.
Also, maybe try raising the nighttime temperature by 5 degrees or so. 65's a little low.

[deranged chipmunk]

most likely, the frog is just acclimating to it's new environment. frogs are just like people in the respect that some handle a move to a new environment better than others. it's very common for a white's (also retf's) to not feed for a couple weeks after coming home from the store. i had some that ate right away, but a couple held off feeding for a few weeks. just offer it one or two crickets in a day or so. no worries, he won't starve to death if he doesn't eat right away. they are tough creatures and can go longer than you think without eating.

[Kazzie]

They arent in a very loud or trafficked part of my home, the only person that really goes near their tank, is moi. I have my salamander enclosure and my Pacific Tree Frog Enclosure in the same area as well.

I actually don't like to feed my animals in their enclosures, and most of the time I put them in a feeding tank. (I've had issues with food escaping my poor froggies) and recently I've been hand feeding my pacifics and my Long toed salamander with a pair of feeding tongs from petco. So far it's been going pretty well, with the exception of an over zealous Pierre trying to gobble up the end of one of the prongs.

I believe that all 3 are young adults.

I've been trying to keep my temperature a little higher at night and during the day, but Their lamp and the under tank heater kinda fluctuate a bit. Which is frustrating as hell, lemme just say.


As for feeding, I've been offering meal worms at the moment - no matter how hard I try I cannot get my crickets to breed or stay alive. I might have to resort to a weekly trip to the petstore to keep supplies up- which is SUPER frustrating.

[irThumper]

Hey, I just noticed you are from Oregon too, Kazzie! Where did you get your frogs? If Petco I would definitely keep a sharp eye on them... there are good Petcos, and there are bad ones, and I had the bad luck to have a local Petco which sold me sick frogs

I would avoid meal worms, too much indigestible material, and I've heard for smaller or more delicate tree frogs the meal worms can start to eat into them before they are even digested! Wax worms occasionally, small earth worms/night crawlers (not red worms or composting worms, they seem to hate those!) and Dubia are all recommended foods, though I haven't had much luck with Dubias. They will go for them but seem to have trouble eating and digesting them. Forget Soldier fly larvae (also called Calci-worms/Phoenix worms) other folks here have said they are a waste of time and usually not digested by their frogs, and I went out and had to prove it for myself-- they passed right through my frogs, guh.

I haven't tried breeding crickets yet but I've had good luck keeping them. What do you have yours in? I keep about 100 to 300 small to medium crickets in a 5.5 gallon tank (would like to upgrade to a 10 gallon), provide the crickets a combination of Fluker's dry cricket chow and crushed up original Cheerios in 2-3 plastic jar lids in different corners of the tank, cover these with cardboard egg carton and tea boxes with the lids and tabs torn off, and I provide a plastic jar with cotton soaked in spring water for them to drink. #1 Is to make sure the tank stays dry & clean if any water spills or cardboard gets wet, dry it and throw out the wet cardboard. I clean the tank out between cricket batches with hot water and white vinegar. #2 Make sure the crickets stay warm. For instance keep them in a warm dry room in the house instead of in the garage or on the porch.

[elly]

Maybe the frogs aren't eating because they feel exposed in the feeding tank or were frightened from being picked up? Maybe they'll get used to it. You could try bowl-feeding, but with three frogs it might be tricky to figure out which one is getting what.

I have had luck with dubias and my frogs seem to digest them pretty well. The only thing is that they're so flat sometimes it's hard for the frogs to get them off the bottom of the bowl.

[Kazzie]

I did get my white's from Petco, and I've been watching them like a hawk (I've read your story and that is a constant thought in my mind) However, my fiance and I have had a very very positive experience so far with ours, and the amphibian specialist we talked to seemed to know his stuff (from what I've read that is) The only thing I have found to be negative about the experience is the type of conditions my babies were in when we adopted them. Completely dry substrate and 17 different whites packed into a 5 gallon tank. I was appalled.

Did I say meal worms? Whoops. I meant the super worms. The soft ugly ones. LOL. I've finally figured out how to breed them- which is a relief, because shelling out a ton of money weekly for crickets has been severely affecting my wallet. I had my pinheads in a 5 gallon critter keeper, and my fully grown adults in a separate one (about 30 fully mature adults) and I provided them with moist substrate to lay eggs, and it seemed like they were. About a week after, I moved the substrate to a breeder box with an under tank heater, and within 3 days the adults were all dead and the substrate in the breeder box was moldy. I figure it was due to poor ventiliation, but its just been so frustrating.


I've been thinking of getting some flightless fruit flies- but my only thought is that my whites are not tiny like my pacific tree frogs. Will flies be big enough to satiate them?

Gizmo <- pictured here has eaten about 5 super worms or so from a bowl this morning, and has had really normal stool. She likes to sit on the budha head we got for her tank.

Sprocket <- has eaten a bit less, I think he took a worm I offered him yesterday, but I have noticed he's been poo'ing regularly as well. On the other.... yuckier side, he did happen shoot pee at me today. That was lovely. The scamp.

Fizgig, on the other hand, I havent even gotten a picture of. She doesnt want to do anything but hide in the corner of the tank where it's darkest. I figure she feels a bit more stressed than the other two.

[elly]

From what I've heard fruit flies are pretty poor nutrition wise. They also do seem a bit small for White's.

Superworms may be a little high in fat for White's, so maybe supplement with some other insect? Earthworms are pretty low in fat, though large nightcrawlers might need to be cut down to size. (If you go that route avoid red wrigglers/redworms though.)

[irThumper]

Hi there! I have had my new whites tree frogs for about... 3 days, and all 3 of them are refusing to eat anything. From all i have read, Whites are little fatties, and mine are not even interested in food. Is this just because they are adapting to their environment?

I keep the temperature in their tank around 75-80 during the day, and 75-65 at night, with a constant humidity of 80%

Humidity is too high for a White's, they prefer it around 50%, with a range of 40%(low) to 60%(high), I'd get that humidity down and make sure they have plenty of ventilation. Temps sound ok to me, with the exception of the 65% being a bit on the low side as per Elly's post; lower temps result in poor digestion.

Could you read this thread and answer the questions? They will help better determine your situation so folks can help you. Thanks! http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...enclosure.html

[deranged chipmunk]

Humidity is too high for a White's, they prefer it around 50%, with a range of 40%(low) to 60%(high), I'd get that humidity down and make sure they have plenty of ventilation. Temps sound ok to me, with the exception of the 65% being a bit on the low side as per Elly's post; lower temps result in poor digestion.

Could you read this thread and answer the questions? They will help better determine your situation so folks can help you. Thanks! http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...enclosure.html

actually, these parameters are ok. you guys seem to forget, white's have a ridiculous range in the wild. anywhere from close to arid conditions in the southern part of australia, to true rainforest conditions in indonesian rain forests. you can't always go by a care sheet on some frogs and a care sheet is nothing more than guideline, not law. that is the primary reason that they are such great beginner frogs, because their care is so varied, it's hard to mess it up. they acclimate to close to anything. i had a white's escape, only to find him two months later. he lived in an arid basement, living off of gosh knows what. he was a bit small, but no worse for wear after 2 months. try having an retf or dart pull that one off. tough, resilient frogs they are!!

i will agree though, that removing frogs from their tank to feed is very stressful, and shouldn't really be done. also, white's hunt by movement, which is what makes crickets the best feeders for them. worms don't move enough and roaches only slightly more. but normally, if you can get them started on roaches, you won't have any issues.

also agree with Lisa, if purchased from petco GET IT TESTED!!!

[tinkgirl77]

Hey kazzie! First off welcome to wonderful frog ownership. Congratulations on the new whites! I will first off say you have really received some great information. I will also reiterate to you to give the new babies time. They are getting as used to you as you are to them. I'm sure they will settle in soon. I will say although i did not keep White's, my retf were exceptionally shy! I had to cover like 80% of their temp tank, add more plants &amp; i moved them to a quieter room before they settled in. Then it still took a week to eat! Then it was very sparse at best. But they're fat loud obnoxious piggies now. It was driving me crazy that they wouldn't eat, was giving me a serious italian complex LOL. Well i hope this helps put your mind at ease a little, just keep an eye on them but remember they're tougher than we give them credit for! Good luck!

[LilyPad]

I also agree with Bill and Lisa (Tink.) The care sheets are great for referring to when you're new at the hobby, but not completely set in stone. I keep my greys outside of the humidity ranges which most care sheets suggest, but it seems to be optimal for them and they're all very healthy. When you're looking at species that have a huge range of habitat, they're going to do well in a broader range of care parameters.