Worried Mama.. Again...

[MariePey]

Well...

Its to my disappointment in myself again that I have to post this..

I think my lil' man isnt happy at all.... I suck....


Just a FYI... I have read every single post possible about the things I'm about to ask and nothing seems to answer my questions or 'match' our situation at all..



Base INFO's

*Tank 18x18x24
*Humidity 40 to 60%
*Temp Around 80 at the bottom of the cage during the day and close to 88 on top and between 72 and 75 at night
*Only have the one male WTF
*No background in my tank as I kept findind pieces of the styrofoam on Giggs and in water bowl and everywhere else and found it unsafe
*Eco Carpet as substrate.. Due to real bad experience with a 'loose' substrate
*Everything is green. Literally. I have only his water bowl that is grey and a fake turtle shell of a very dark color but EVERYTHING else is green
*I barely handle him anymore and when I do its just a few minutes. He doesnt even pee anymore and never wants to get off my hands now
*Hes fed like a king. Gut load my insects like a complete OCD and gets dusted every so often
*He's also kept in a seperate room so no one bugs him or make noise or turn on and off the light. Nice and quiet
*He's very confortable with me now too. he waits for me at feeding time and a lot of time he deosnt care about his food.. He's on one mission.. Getting to mommy as fast as he can. Lol Just to perch for the sake of it. Always runs towards my face too. Not my hands lol
*He gets a bath every so often as the lil monster only poops once every week and half and it doesnt seem right yet his pooped are big and healthy
*He's croaking randomly. Usually active once the light goes off


The questions..

**I bought him about a month and half ago.. He was lime green and gorgeous! Now he is brown pruple ish and if he changes color at all its usually just some of his legs and a little bit on his sides if he's in the bath or sometimes at night.. WHY!!!!!???? What am i doing wrong? I have NOT seen him green like when I bought him since then.. Not once... He's not stressed. Not impacted. Tank is ALL green. Temp and humidity perfect (even played with it a bit to see if lower or higher would make a difference..). I DONT KNOW ANYMORE! And if it's due to health or mood.. Well I suck at making him happy!!

**Do you guys' WTF poop more then once every week and half/two weeks? Is it normal that Giggs only poop then even tho hes fed every second day? Ive even played with his food.. More and less depending on the day and some phoenix worms.. Im kinda lost...

**When it comes down to Aussi or Indo WTF.. Im trying to read everything i can find on the subject and it must be my French because I CAN"T make the difference!! Lol Ill post a few pictures of my lil' man.. Aussi or Indo!?



ANY SUGGESTIONS? And I mean guys.. Ive given myself and my man a headache about Giggs.. never worried so much about poop (besides mine LOL) and color and temp and humidity and light and room and...ECT! Oh Dear!!! Am I just to worried?

Giggs was very different when I got him.. I guess thats why I worry.. I remember seing his cage at the pet store with leaking poop on the walls and him SOOOOO green! And now.. Nothing... ????????


Even found him a couple weeks ago during the day at the bottom of his cage... Not moving.. I had tears... Screamed at my man thinking he was dead... Rolled in a ball... But no. Little **** actually croaked at me when I touched him.. Hes good now. He hasnt done such a thing since. ??



WTF (and not for White tree frog)!! Lol

And please.. As ridiculous as this may sound to some of you.. Im very sensitive about this.. Giggs as a special place in my heart and makes me sick to think hes not happy... Please dont be mean or tell me to go read.. IVE READ EVERYTHING I COULD! Been trhu this whole forum and soo many different website.. It's just so all basic or don't apply to OUR situation. Books on 'perfect terrarium' included. So if you don't know, please don't answer and don't be mean

Thanks

PS : Pictures to follow right away

[MariePey]

[MariePey]

[MariePey]

Oh... i forgot..


Bought more plants and perching item for him today. Just waiting on them now to get here!

Sorry for the backward pictures.. oups...

[Lija]

The first thing that I see here is that a tank is very open, you need to cover 3 sides of it. You can get just a fish tank background, one of those they can cut for you in stores, and attach to the outside of the tank. I'd also add some different branches, something he can perch on closer to the ground, bigger diameter and something higher up. ... ( I see you did it already

The second, temps and humidity. I suggest you check those with different gauges, with digital ones ( 10$ at canadian tire, Walmart, etc) humidity at 40 is too low.

fecal testing, was it done?

They change colours depending on their mood and surroundings, stress levels.

[MariePey]

Thanks Lija

Yes i did order a bunch of other things for the lil guy. I had the back wall to tge tank to a mirror at some point. He seems to enjoy. Ill be looking at something for the background at the store

I have three gauges.. one that sticks to tge window on tge inside (temp and humidity ) a digital one with a probe in the bottom cornee and i have a laser pointer. I think temp wise im doing ok lol

Will try the bacground for sure.

For the humidity, i seem to read at multiple places lower humidity brings tgey color and a lot of people keep tgem within that range? I can try again to bring it up?

Sigh.. lol but im not giving up!!!

[Lija]

Cover the mesh top with something, tin foil I like the best for it. And see how much do you need to cover to get humidity in a right range. In our climate you can easily cover the whole top with the foil, and then cut holes a big bigger then you need for lamps. And then see the readings, if humidity you are getting too high, you can just cut more foil.

[Frogfeet123]

For a background I will suggest exo terra tree fern panels. You silicone them to the sides and they look very natural, you can grow things off of them if you'd like, and the frogs can climb on them.

You shouldn't worry too much, I personally think he sounds very happy. And remember, everything varies from frog to frog. For example, my Betty will burrow when something's not right. Once it was humidity, and once she didn't have a place to hide. It's all trial and error. These are very forgiving frogs, so I think you are doing just fine



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[elly]

I wouldn't worry that much either, maybe he prefers being brown? Changing colors can be a sign of stress, but it doesn't seem to always be one. Mine turns brown when he gets damp or chilled.

Frogs have very slow metabolisms, not pooping more than once a week seems pretty normal. Also, sitting very very still during the day...you wouldn't believe the number of times I've mistaken my frog for dead. I understand, it's a bad feeling. But you've got to remember they're cold-blooded and they evolved to sit very, very still so predators can't find them and so they can sneak up on their prey. Sometimes they just sit on the ground for a while.

Also, congratulations! You seem to have a friendly frog who loves to climb on you! It's not terrified and that's a good sign.

Edit: I'd raise the humidity and check and see if the carpet has any loops a froggy foot could get caught in. Other than that everything seems fine.

[Frogfeet123]

I wouldn't worry that much either, maybe he prefers being brown? Changing colors can be a sign of stress, but it doesn't seem to always be one. Mine turns brown when he gets damp or chilled.

Frogs have very slow metabolisms, not pooping more than once a week seems pretty normal. Also, sitting very very still during the day...you wouldn't believe the number of times I've mistaken my frog for dead. I understand, it's a bad feeling. But you've got to remember they're cold-blooded and they evolved to sit very, very still so predators can't find them and so they can sneak up on their prey. Sometimes they just sit on the ground for a while.

Also, congratulations! You seem to have a friendly frog who loves to climb on you! It's not terrified and that's a good sign.

Edit: I'd raise the humidity and check and see if the carpet has any loops a froggy foot could get caught in. Other than that everything seems fine.

Agreed! Also wanted to add, mostly everything in my enclosure is brown, and my frogs both are green most of the time. And like Ella said, when my frogs are either damp or chilled they tend to go a little darker. I've also heard males change color more often then females. About the reptile carpet, I would suggest either paper towel or something similar that's a bit softer, as the carpets tend to feel a bit rough. I've found my frogs prefer something cushy. I use moss, which I know many people are against but multiple times I have found my two cuddled into the moss in a deep sleep


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[irThumper]

What kind of lighting is he getting? My frogs have 6500K T8 grow lights for plants on their table and the normal incandescent room lighting, plus a blue 60 watt daytime bulb over their housing and red 60 watt bulb at night; all lighting is 12 hrs on 12 off. Jelly Bean and Honey-Lime change color the most infrequently. Honey is almost always lime colored (honey color is his version of brown), and Jelly is a pretty Hersey's chocolate brown I'd say 98% of the time, and an olive green on occasion (mostly goes green at night, oddly). Shirley is my color change expert. In the daytime, whether awake or asleep, she is varies between greener seafoam green to pale blue-green, at night she turns that purplish-brown color you mentioned... when transitioning it is common that the sides and legs stay green while the top side is the darker color. She's never turned as brown as a brown as the pics of your guy. She will on occasion turn a smokier purple grey color, which to me looks like a zombie skin-- bleh! She is mostly active when she is darker since she is hunting, but I have seen her inactive and soaking for extended periods of time where she was the zombie color. My guys all have white paper toweling for substrate, Shirl & honey have a purple soaking dish and upside down saucer, a pale green flower pot and darker green silk leaves for their plant. Jelly has a marbled green and while soaker dish, a pale green aucer and flower pot, and a single giant medium green silk leaf for his plant.

Your humidity sounds fine to me, though 50% is better than 40% of course. Temps should be fine, mine average 77-80 in the daytime and 73-75 at night. I'd try to experiment with the lighting.

[MariePey]

Well over the course of this last week or two now, ive experiment a few things..

FYI... always had a blue glass 60 watt over him during the day and i leave him in the dark at night

Put on foil paper on top and aroubd three windows to cover him up. Closest petstore is 45 minutes away and during the holidays, its all i could use for now. Well..... absolutely no change. Still very purple brown during the day. Still some kibd of green legs at night or when i handle him.. weigh him and hes lost some weight too.. hmm....

Getting that stuff i ordered hopefully on monday. Ive added a few things which i think he likes as hes been playing ariund them.

Temp up same as usual. Trying to keep it lower as he looks like he pants when its over 80 which freaks me out.. and trying to keep humidity at 60.

Hes still eating good, pooping on his week and half schedule LOL and right on the shell waiting fir me at night to put him to bed and i find him out a lot waiting for me to wake him up in the morning. Heard him going off this morning too

So im not sure.. heres a few more pictures.....

What kind of lighting is he getting? My frogs have 6500K T8 grow lights for plants on their table and the normal incandescent room lighting, plus a blue 60 watt daytime bulb over their housing and red 60 watt bulb at night; all lighting is 12 hrs on 12 off. Jelly Bean and Honey-Lime change color the most infrequently. Honey is almost always lime colored (honey color is his version of brown), and Jelly is a pretty Hersey's chocolate brown I'd say 98% of the time, and an olive green on occasion (mostly goes green at night, oddly). Shirley is my color change expert. In the daytime, whether awake or asleep, she is varies between greener seafoam green to pale blue-green, at night she turns that purplish-brown color you mentioned... when transitioning it is common that the sides and legs stay green while the top side is the darker color. She's never turned as brown as a brown as the pics of your guy. She will on occasion turn a smokier purple grey color, which to me looks like a zombie skin-- bleh! She is mostly active when she is darker since she is hunting, but I have seen her inactive and soaking for extended periods of time where she was the zombie color. My guys all have white paper toweling for substrate, Shirl & honey have a purple soaking dish and upside down saucer, a pale green flower pot and darker green silk leaves for their plant. Jelly has a marbled green and while soaker dish, a pale green aucer and flower pot, and a single giant medium green silk leaf for his plant.

Your humidity sounds fine to me, though 50% is better than 40% of course. Temps should be fine, mine average 77-80 in the daytime and 73-75 at night. I'd try to experiment with the lighting.

[LilyPad]

I would stop handling him 100% right now. Whites may tolerate handling a little better than say, a red eyed tree frog, but it will still stress them out no matter how chill they may appear. If he's not doing great, losing weight, I would make sure to reduce the stress as much as possible. I'm not sure about the "panting." I've never seen a tree frog pant, maybe shedding? What are you feeding him? If poop is rare, feeders may be too big and he's having trouble digesting them. What kind of water are you using?

EDIT - How long have you had him? Where did you get him? Wild caught or captive bred? Ever had fecal tests done?

[PeachyRabbit]

I could be wrong, But this frog looks a bit dehydrated. But what a beautiful frog!

[deranged chipmunk]

I wouldn't worry about his coloring. Ask 30 different people and you will get thirty different theories on why they change color. Truth is, nobody truly knows. As long as he is acting normally, eating normally just leave him be. All you are doing is stressing him out with all the changes. Too many at one time. Make one small adjustment at a time. Remember, you cannot force a frog to change colors. They do it on their own. For now, enjoy having a healthy frog.

For what it's worth, I used to keep 6 white's. Some stayed green, some a mix, and some stayed brown. It's all up to the individual frog.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[MariePey]

Amy,

Most of your questions have been answrred in my very first post.

For the water, in conditionned water. Crickets are a size smaller as i paranoi about impaction. Only handle him on weigh days and cleaning days. I never bother him otherwise. No fecal test, every single of his poop as shown very healthy plus our vet is a hour ago and booked for a week.. they need fresh stuff. And according to everything he has shown me, he appears to be a captive boy.

I understand about the individualism and all but he was completely different when i got him so just thought i was doing something wrong.

For the changes, i only up the humidity a bit and added the foil paper. It has not been a roller coaster. Maybe im writing and the way i write makes it sounds that way? Lol been a horse trainer and dog trainer for the last 13 years. No animals take well to too many changes too fast !

I thank you all for forcibg me too see that Giggs is actually healthy and maybe just to leave him the heck alone. Lol im sure he will be ok. Just worrytoo much i think lol.

FYI.... Anyone has experience their frog croaking to the sound of your voice? He did ut twice yesterday! Walked in his room to spray and check on him, started chatting to him and he croaked back a couple times he must be doing ok!! Lol

Happy new year to all the Froggers out there too!!!!!!

[LilyPad]

He's not necessarily healthy if you've noticed he's losing weight. He could be just chubby and have lost some weight because he had more space to move, just keep an eye on it like you already are. And I just re read your first post and didn't see a single answer to the questions I asked. If you meant one of your first threads, well, I'm working off the information posted in this thread.

Fyi, I was a dog trainer also, worked with one of the top trainers in the country, doesn't mean I knew jack about frogs when I got my first one.

[MariePey]

Cleay reads up there ive had him for a month and half and took him at the petstore.

All i was saying by the dog trainer thing, is that i kniw that no animals take well to too many changes at the same time. Not once ive insinuated i knew everything about frogs!

He's not necessarily healthy if you've noticed he's losing weight. He could be just chubby and have lost some weight because he had more space to move, just keep an eye on it like you already are. And I just re read your first post and didn't see a single answer to the questions I asked. If you meant one of your first threads, well, I'm working off the information posted in this thread.

Fyi, I was a dog trainer also, worked with one of the top trainers in the country, doesn't mean I knew jack about frogs when I got my first one.