Disease Diagnosis

[sammermpc]

Hello,

I caught what I believe is a Northern Cricket Frog and have been caring for it for several months. I have had a number of frogs over the years, but would not consider myself an expert, by any means. I set up a fairly elaborate terrarium, with commercial substrate, a small pool, and a waterfall. I have been feeding small (1/4" - 3/8" crickets, dusted, several times a week).

She has had various levels of activity, but has typically seemed healthy. This evening, while changing the water in the tank, I noticed that she hadn't moved from a spot behind the waterfall where she likes to sit. I touched her, and she didn't move. She was dead.

I have no idea why! I believe she's been eating; I've been unable to track her pooping, as the tank has substrate, but she's seemed fine and more-or-less healthy. It is possible that she's been eating less, as I noticed a cricket still hopping around in the tank a day or two after she was fed, which seemed unusual, but I thought it was fine, as I didn't see the other tickets (I put in 5-6 at a time).

Anyhow — what could it be? Could it be Red Leg disease? I am not familiar with it, but see that it's a common cause of rapid death. I've attached some photos, but it's not very pronounced, but you can see some splotchy redness. It's more noticeable in real life, but still not very convincing.







I've caught this guy wild, like all the small frogs I've had, and I don't really want a buy a new one. I am sad, but also concerned because I don't know what killed this guy.

[Lija]

Have you quarantined it properly? Fecal testing? What kind of water have you used?

so sorry for your loss

[sammermpc]

Have you quarantined it properly? Fecal testing? What kind of water have you used?

so sorry for your loss

No quarantine. She was the one-and-only frog I had. No fecal testing either. Yeah, I was thinking it could've been the water, but she seemed to soak and enjoy it without trouble. I've been filling up 5G buckets with water and then letting them sit for at least a week to dechlorinate, but I probably should have been using SeaChem Prime or something to get rid of metals. Would she behave normally until finally just die, like that?

[LilyPad]

Leaving it set won't get rid of all the bad stuff. They can exhibit small signs that you might not take notice of until they die. I notice there is also a weird, red, lump sticking out of her belly...is that something you noticed when you examined her or did the camera make more of it? Quarantine is for singleton frogs also, that way you can monitor eating habits and if there is normal bowel movements, not runny, stuff like that. I would fecal test any wild caught frog because chances are good they carry parasites.

I am very sorry for your loss Never easy to lose a frog.

[Lija]

So that's a reason then. Amy - all WC frogs carry a huge load of parasites, it's not probability, that's a fact.
so at least 2 factors contributed here:
- water!
-parasites

its pretty common for a WC frog to die this way, WC frogs are adapted to carry parasites they do in a wild, not every frog survive, but most will. It's natural process in a wild. When WC frog gets into captivity the parasite eggs, larvae/adult forms keep accomulating in the environment and in a frog until a frog can't handle anymore and die. That is a reason for proper quarantine with fecal testing and appropriate treatment afterwards even if you have just one frog.

that's is also reason why cb frogs are cheaper in a long run, you can just test them once and the likelihood of negative tests is pretty high. With WC you are looking into at least 2-3 months quarantine and treatment, multiple fecal testings.

once again im very sorry for your loss, things happen, everybody makes mistakes, what matters is how to learn from them.

[sammermpc]

I notice there is also a weird, red, lump sticking out of her belly...is that something you noticed when you examined her or did the camera make more of it?

Yeah, that's what had me asking about Red Leg. those reddish splotches across the belly. It is somewhat more noticeable in real-life than in the camera, actually, though not super-noticeable.

So that's a reason then. Amy - all WC frogs carry a huge load of parasites, it's not probability, that's a fact.
so at least 2 factors contributed here:
- water!
-parasites

I've ordered some SeaChem, so that won't be a problem again. I will also do more research about our water, here, in general. We recently moved, so it's possible that the water is just different here.

its pretty common for a WC frog to die this way, WC frogs are adapted to carry parasites they do in a wild, not every frog survive, but most will. It's natural process in a wild. When WC frog gets into captivity the parasite eggs, larvae/adult forms keep accomulating in the environment and in a frog until a frog can't handle anymore and die. That is a reason for proper quarantine with fecal testing and appropriate treatment afterwards even if you have just one frog.

its pretty common for a WC frog to die this way, WC frogs are adapted to carry parasites they do in a wild, not every frog survive, but most will. It's natural process in a wild. When WC frog gets into captivity the parasite eggs, larvae/adult forms keep accomulating in the environment and in a frog until a frog can't handle anymore and die. That is a reason for proper quarantine with fecal testing and appropriate treatment afterwards even if you have just one frog.

Thanks for the tips. Prior to building out the terrarium, she was living in a bare tank with a small dish, and her fecal habits seemed normal. Is there a way to test these things

Here's a related question — before I put another frog in the terrarium, what steps should I take? It is fully planted, at this point, so a complete teardown might be a challenge, but if that's necessary, that's what I'll do. I don't know how to sterilize things like gravel and substrate, though.

[Lija]

YEs, you need to completely tear down everything, fully disinfect with full strength bleach. The soil is not usable anymore, plants can be dipped into mild bleach solution. It's nightmare and that's why when you get a new frog you better follow all qt procedures

[sammermpc]

YEs, you need to completely tear down everything, fully disinfect with full strength bleach. The soil is not usable anymore, plants can be dipped into mild bleach solution. It's nightmare and that's why when you get a new frog you better follow all qt procedures

Ok, I'll do that. Here's a question -- what if I don't get another frog for say, 3-4 months, and just let the place grow and settle in. Do you think that it could be safe for a frog after that?

[Lija]

Yes, if you completey desinfect the tank it should be safe. Keep in mind you need to properly quarantine your new frog to avoid all that hassle with tearing everything apart and the death of the frog.