HELP! Gray tree from bloated with air

[HappyShoes91]

Hello. New posterhere. Played with frogs and toads outside my whole life, been keeping them aspets for about two years now. I’ve triedgoogling and reading all kinds of articles but am still at a loss for what todo here. One of my tanks contains twogray tree frogs. Both of which werecaught in my backyard as tadpoles last summer. They’ve been actual frogs for 4-5 months now. The problem is with the littler of thetwo.
Last week, Sunday, I noticed he was staying on the bottom ofthe tank (normally climbing) and kind of bloated. The bloating has gone up and down a bit butrecently he’s maintained his bloat and it seems to consist of air. Based on what I read, I originally thought hehad metabolic bone disease or some kind of calcium deficiency because his fingerslooked broken. I upped his calciumintake and added a UV bulb which seems to have done something because he isstill alive and moving. I read thatfrogs of his condition usually don’t get better because the MBD was caught toolate. But he’s still alive. The only thing that seems to have worsened isthe air bloating. Long story short, I’mnot sure if this is a calcium thing and if not, I have no idea what it is orhow to treat it.
Quick Factson Behavior:

• Cannot climb but still tries.
• When he tries, he gets himself on the wall,tries to move a hand and falls down (maybe a few centimeters in height)
• When he falls, he sometimes lands on his backbut can easily flip himself over
• Has trouble hunting but I make sure I see himcatch something everyday
• Posture is lower (like that crawling positionand not the normal sitting position)
• Still hops a decent distance
• Soaks more than usual but not excessively
• Just recently shed a layer of skin

QUESTIONS
1. Gray Tree Frog (not sure which kind, but I think versicolor)
2. & 3. Will attempt to attachphotos next
4. Enclosure = 12x12x18
5. & 6. One other tank mate, yes size difference, same species
7. No new tank mates
8. Humidity = 30-40 (lowered due to recently discovered white fuzzy whispy moldlooking substance)
9. Temperature = 60-70
10. Heat lamp for night time heat maintenance, UV and incandescent bulb fordaytime heat
11. Lighting = 13w UVB bulb/60w incandescent bulb in the day…purple heat lampat night
12. Change water every day to every few days because it evaporates quickly,cleaned every 2-6 weeks depending on how it looks/smells
13. Water = distilled for misting, tap water (well water/no chlorine) forsoaking dish
14. Substrate = one of those green tank carpet things, can’t remember the brand
15. Enclosure setup = background on outside of tank, two ground level fakeplants, one fake plant suction cupped to the wall, all plants are plastic. Plastic soaking dish, two backyard rocks (notrecent additions), one long stick that came with the tank (used for two monthsnow), three sticks from my backyard (all of which I have used for a long time,not new to the tank
16. Saw frog eat last night
17. yes
18. There are always some fruit flies in the tank. They eat when they want to
19. Fed dros hydei fruit flies, feeders roam free in tank
24. Calcium = tetrafauna reptocal
25. Yes, frog w/o calcium for period of time
26. 4-5 months old frog
27. Owned since tadpole
28---who cared for the frog before you = nature
29. The frog was a wild caught tadpole
30. Frog handled only when tank cleaned, more recently because he’s sick
31. tank in low traffic area
30. Had frog quarantined but gave in to his sad little face and reintroducedhim to the tank because he didn’t seem to develop communicable symptoms
32. Not treated with any medication

[LilyPad]

Pictures? Will get on the computer to type up more of a response in a min, but pictures would be very helpful in knowing the severity.

[HappyShoes91]

Pictures of frog and habitat

[LilyPad]

Firstly, a little mold will not hurt them. I would bump the humidity back up to 45-50%, especially when you do not have much substrate to maintain it. Get the temps to about 70 and maintain them there. I know they can survive winter, but they'll digest the best with a higher temp The 12x12x18 will work while they are juveniles, but you're going to want to get something bigger as they grow. That's not enough space for two grown grey tree frogs. If he can't climb, I would get rid of the reptile carpet, you do not want it to scratch his sensitive skin. Use damp, unprinted paper towels, changed every 1-2 days. The water needs to be treated even if it is well water. Helps with the heavy metals. That could be the issue if he's been soaking a little extra and the water isn't treated. Does the stomach feel hard? Is it squishy like it's filled with air or with fluid? Are they big enough to take small crickets yet?

UV is not necessary, the calcium supplements will work just fine. You should also get vitamin supplements, fruit flies aren't exactly packed with nutrition, the sooner the better!

You may want to get the fecals tested to make sure there are no parasites causing issues.

EDIT: And welcome to the forum! Greys can be really great pets!

I'd also get a more reliable way of measuring temp/humidity. You can just use a plain glass floating thermometer (from the fish section, $1-2) to measure the temps. May want to get a digital hygrometer for measuring the humidity. Not much in the way of substrate and heat lamps could dry things out fast.

[LilyPad]

Here is a thread when I had a similar thing happen ... http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/8951-she-okay.html

My well water that I used in their tank was untreated at the time. Within 24 hours though, the bloating went down and it never interfered with his movements.

[HappyShoes91]

awesome! thank you! I will try your suggestions and probably post an update tomorrow

[HappyShoes91]

and his belly is squishy. It actually looks like air stuck in there....but since it goes up and down so much it is probably fluid

[HappyShoes91]

Update. The bloating got worse overnight I cleaned out the tank and added the paper towel substrate, worked on maintaining a higher humidity and added a heat pad. The bloating has gotten bad enough that he no longer fits in his little hidey hole on the tank floor and I don't think he can eat. Because of the whole eating thing, I decided to read up on aspiration. It was by far the last thing I wanted to do. Right before doing "frog surgery" this morning, I saw him fall over onto his back. He was so fat that he couldn't roll himself over. Thus far, frog surgery seems to have helped....at least given him some relief. Quite a bit of fluid drained out, not as quickly as I had expected. But I put him in a hospital tank and am just watching to make sure he is okay. "/

[PeachyRabbit]

I am not sure, But this may be renal failure. The poor thing may have severely reduced kidney function. If it is an infection, Maybe Baytril soaks will help. Check other threads for that. I am only parroting what I have read before. Spring water baths may help for frogs overloaded with toxins. Also read about Vitamin A toxicity. The more you know, The better right? I know people say there is no need for UVB lights, But that is ludicrous. No living creature on earth can live healthfully long term without sunlight, Be it artificial or not. Be sure to use a screened top if you do use a UVB bulb. That spectrum of light does not properly penetrate glass. I believe a full spectrum UVA/UVB Heat lamp is best for Gray tree frogs and a red "night time" bulb for their nocturnal hours. Also, Please do not listen to those who say that Gray tree frogs do not need a light or heat source. That is patently untrue. Without sufficient heat, Your amphibian cannot properly absorb nutrients from food or supplements.Beyond that, Depression can and does occur in amphibians. These lights are known to help. I know I am giving you a lot of information here, But depression and stress are major reasons for health issues as well as improper husbandry. As far as nutrition, I have found it best to use a Multi vitamin/Multi mineral supplement with D3 and a calcium supplement without D3. Toxicity also can occur from too much D3 and if your frog has reduced kidney function then you must be very careful. Do you treat your water with something such as Aquatize? If not, Please start. Toxicity also occurs from untreated water. I mist my Gray and her enclosure with Poland Spring several times a day. She loves it. Since they drink through their skin it keeps them well hydrated between soaks in frequently cleaned water. Sorry for all of the info at once, It is everything I could think of that might help your sweet little frog. I hope he will be ok. Please update us on his condition.

[PeachyRabbit]

I just realized you said distilled water. Distilled will kill your frog. It interferes with the absorption of certain nutrients.

[HappyShoes91]

I meant to thank you for your advice when you posted and I'm just now remembering. lol. So, yes, I completely agreed with you that it was probably renal failure and Tiny Toby was going to die. Everything made sense, nothing I tried worked, so I figured I would just try to keep him comfortable in his hospital tank. I first noticed this on December 8th. ..as of today, March 19th, Toby is still alive. ...like...wut?? yea...he is still alive. He never really got any better, well...maybe a bit, but long story short is that he is still alive. I do feed him by hand everyday just to make sure he eats. I think he's gotten too accustomed to it because he opens and closes his mouth for me now. He's about the same size, no growth really. He does get bloated from time to time but I literally just massage his leg where I aspirated himin December and it seems to drain right out. He then hops around for a bit before becoming tired again. He doesn’t do much, but he’s still alive andI just have no idea what his deal is. Ifhe ever gets just a bit bigger, I want to take him to a herp vet because atthis point, I’m just insanely curious as to what this is. Never have I had a sick frog live more than aweek let alone three months.


,

[irThumper]

Glad he's still alive! If this was renal failure I'm quite sure the little guy would have perished long ago... Are you maintaining temps/humidty as per Amy (Lilypad's) directions? When is the last time you saw him poop? Did you have him fecal tested for parasites? What is he eating now? Should be able to eat tiny crickets, small waxworms (on occasion), and very small/baby night crawlers & baby dubia, at this point. Reptocal- Cal/D3 can be given daily, except for the one day a week he should have a multi-vit. I would give him bottled spring water treated with Reptisafe to soak in; If you have live plants in the tank never use treated water on them though! Makes brown spots, just use untreated spring water for misting the tank and watering plants.

Have you ever given him a lukewarm honey bath?

[ColleenT]

i hope he makes it.