Uh-oh...

[BeckyM]

I know I haven't been here in forever, I apologize. Life went crazy.

And it got crazier this morning.

I found my Gerty( eastern gray treefrog) sitting on her rock, looking like she was asleep, but her front legs were twitching wildly. Concerned, I moved her to the small tank, cleaned out the big one and replaced her.

She's quite large, though, I did feed her yesterday. (Could I have fed her too much? I only gave her three medium crickets. Did she eat a bad cricket?) I also found her in her water dish alot. I attributed that to the fact that it is pretty dry in my house in winter. I do mist her tank daily.

Her eyes are bright/clear, her tummy is a normal color and she is relatively active- given the time of day. As of right now, she's mobile, but one of her front legs has the toes clenched shut like a fist; she tried to climb the tank wall and only seemed to be able to control one side. Her back legs and lower half are twitching and I really don't know what to do about it. do frogs have seizures?

I really didn't need a sick frog during finals week. Now I REALLY can't study because I'm worried about my little friend.

Is there anything I can do to make her more comfortable? Anything to stop the twitching?

[LilyPad]

Do you supplement with calcium powder?

[BeckyM]

Not, usually, no. I always just gut loaded my crickets and let them go. I had one frog for 7 years and never did extra calcium. I did pick some up today( after reading about MBD), in spray form, but I think I'm too late. The twitching has gotten worse and Gert's lost control of her back legs too. :\ The directions said for critters needing calcium, I could administer it orally. I haven't a way to open Gert's mouth, so I've got her soaking in some warm spring water mixed with calcium spray.

This is, with MDB, she didn't show ANY signs of anything being wrong until this morning. No lethargy or anything. Ugh.

[StickySally]

I'm sorry to hear about your frog. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions. I hope she makes it.


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[LilyPad]

I have seen it happen on here before. Seems healthy and then they're very sick. The liquid calcium is good for soaking to try to bring some of the levels back up, I use rep-cal powder though for my crickets. I will let a couple people know that you're looking for help.

[BeckyM]

Thank you!

I feel like a terrible pet owner, I had no idea this would ever be a problem.
How long should I soak her and how often? Poor little thing, both her front... hands? are curled into fists now, she moves, her back legs are less twitchy, but still abnormal.

[Mentat]

Chronic deficiencies take a while to show up and then when they do; it takes a log time to rebound back. Frogs kept in captivity do need supplements. From reading symptoms, appear your frog has severe MDB and neurological problems. More info on supplements in here: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html.

Recommend you soak frog in 80F solution made by mixing unflavored 10% Pedialyte (or similar unflavored baby electrolyte product) with 90% dechlorinated tap water. Soak frog twice a day for 20 minutes. Can use a small critter keeper or plastic bowl with holed up top.

If frog is eating; dust it's food with Flukers Repta-Boost for the next 2 weeks. Then start a normal dusting schedule.

What kind of water are you using in frog's bath? Recommend only use dechlorinated tap. Good luck !

[BeckyM]

I dunno about neurological issues at this point; she seems to be ok. Definitely short on calcium though, and for that I feel bad. I had no idea!
I am pleased to say that after soaking in calcium water for 8 hours because I didn't want to handle her the way she was, she seems normal. The twitching has stopped, she's trying to escape the critter keeper she's in (after crapping in it) I think we're golden. I hope.

The calcium kind of makes sense when I stop back and think about it. My eyes twitch like crazy when I haven't had enough, why shouldn't a frogger be the same way?

By the way, how often should I continue to soak her? Since I now know she's low on calcium.... 20 minutes daily? I will add the calcium to her food as well. I don't want to give her too much, I've heard that is bad for them too.

I use spring or distilled water. There's so much yuck(extra fluoride and other...stuff) in the city water here, I won't drink it and I won't make my slime baby drink it either. :P

Repta-boost? Ok, back to the pet store I go... tomorrow. XD

for now, she is back in her tank, happily perched on a rock.

THank you for your input and help, guys! I appreciate it! If there are any changes, I'll be sure to let you know.

[Heatheranne]

Hi BeckyM,

Calcium was definitely the treatment.

Pick up some Repcal with vitamin D3. Lightly dust on insects every other meal. Get some Repashy calcium plus multivitamin and do a light dusting on insects one day a week, on a different day than Repcal. Gut-loading the crickets makes them nutritious but they generally still lack in calcium. Dust right before feeding. The crickets can surprisingly remove a good bit of the powder with their feet.

A bit of teaching that comes in handy...

Tetany is a group of symptoms caused by low calcium levels in the blood. If untreated, it will progress in severity.

Symptoms of tetany: numbness, tingling, twitching tremors, loss of coordination, lack of intestinal peristalsis leading to abdominal swelling, cardiac dysrhythmias, loss of muscular functions and movement, inability to swallow, seizures, death.

Calcium is not well-absorbed without vitamin D3. Calcium carbonate is insoluble in water and will just sink or float. Calcium chloride is too caustic and can cause burns. Calcium gluconate can be injected by a vet in emergency situations. Doses are calculated by animal species and weight. Flukers does make a liquid supplement which can be used in an emergency as a soaking. It needs to be made into a dilutional soak with either dechlorinated or spring water. This is not a proper long-term treatment. The body best regulates the amount of calcium and vitamin D3 needed through the gastrointestinal system, ie. by oral supplement with meals, by a properly dosed amphibian powder.

Too much calcium and vitamin D3 are also harmful. This is why we use a rotating schedule.

Why are frogs in captivity more prone to MBD than frogs in the wild? Frogs and amphibians in the wild eat insects which eat lots of nice leafy green plants and fruits, which have calcium. The frogs in turn eat the insects. They also have a few hours a day of UVB light exposure from the suns rays in which they can produce vitamin D3. Run-off water and puddles contain some minerals and trace elements.

Now that your frog is doing well, get him on a nice schedule . Start your next feeding with the calcium/D3 dusting. You can use a cup or baggie (pinch of supplement, add bugs, gentle shake).

For water: use either dechlorinated tap water or spring water. Be sure to check if the spring water is chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metal free. If any are present, use a dechlorinating solution which neutralizes heavy metal ions. You can use distilled water for misting only. For water bowl and to moisten substrates, use dechlorinated or spring (as above).


Will you keep us updated?

Good luck!

[BeckyM]

I have yet to buy the extra D3, but I will in the upcoming days, when I make my next cricket run. For the moment I am spraying down the crickets with the calcium spray. I've seen the little suckers clean EVERYTHING off of themselves, I'm aware they will wipe off anything. Part of the reason I opted for the spray, it's harder to wipe off something that dries in 10 seconds.

Gertrude eagerly accepted a calcium coated bug or two today and is back to her fat, goofy self.

Yes, I will keep you all updated.

[Mentat]

... I use spring or distilled water. There's so much yuck(extra fluoride and other...stuff) in the city water here, I won't drink it and I won't make my slime baby drink it either. :...

Using distilled water probably contributed to issue. Distilled water has nothing in it; no minerals whatsoever. So when frog takes a bath... the minerals in the frog's body move through it's skin into the distilled water to "balance" things out. Obviously; that ain't good for the frog.

Recommend use dechlorinated tap (Seachem Prime or ExoTerra Aquatize) unless you know what is exactly inside those Spring Water bottles. More on that in here: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...hing-else.html.

[BeckyM]

Using distilled water probably contributed to issue. Distilled water has nothing in it; no minerals whatsoever. So when frog takes a bath... the minerals in the frog's body move through it's skin into the distilled water to "balance" things out. Obviously; that ain't good for the frog.

Recommend use dechlorinated tap (Seachem Prime or ExoTerra Aquatize) unless you know what is exactly inside those Spring Water bottles. More on that in here: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...hing-else.html.

I personally drink spring water right from a spring. There's Artesian wells up here that we utilize on a regular basis. Bring your own bottle, fill them up, drive off.

[Heatheranne]

How's your frog doing? Any updates?

[BeckyM]

Sorry for taking so long, I had finals!

Got her on the vitamins/water she needs and my little Gert is doing well. Bright eyes, active, hungry as ever! Not so much as a twitch since I got her on the calcium. She's even got some of her green coloring coming back, which I wasn't expecting. (There's not that much green in her tank, mostly gray things.)

The spray works like a dream too. I can put the crickets in a small, separate container, douse them in calcium juice and when they're dry, throw them in with the frog. Unlike powder, they can't just wipe it off, so my frog is now getting what she needs! Whoo-hoo!

Thank you all again SO much for your help. You're awesome.

[Heatheranne]

Nice job!

[LilyPad]

Good news! Thanks for giving us an update!