I want to bring up the issue of possibly caring for frogs too much. I like to make my frogs home and life as natural as possible, but fecal examinations, vet visits, medications...etc these things are NOT natural and would not happen in the wild. IMO, these things cause more harm to the frogs than good. You don't know if these "frog doctors" really know what they're doing or if they are just telling you **** to get money. Also, vet visits cause a lot of stress for a frog and can make "symptoms." If my frogs were to get seriously ill, I would put them down. That is the closest thing to what would happen in the wild.
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I agree 100%.
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My opinion: You're right that vet visits can cause stress. Having some commensal protozoa should be fine for a frog. At the other extreme, I know amphibian medicine isn't advanced enough to handle many severe problems. Putting a frog down in many cases might be better than letting it live with pain. However, if a frog seems sick, I'd still get a fecal test done. If there's some kind of infection I'd weigh the severity of it against the fact that yes, the drugs do have side effects and can make the frogs uncomfortable temporarily. Being cared for when sick might not be natural, but neither is living inside a glass box. As long as the frog is comfortable and able to follow its instincts, I think the situation isn't too bad.
Yes maybe. I always try to think of what the frog would want, and what would happen in the wild
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The problem is the frogs are NOT in the wild. They have YOU to care for them. Sure, in the wild, they would possibly die from being ill, but yours aren't in the wild and have the advantage over wild frogs in that they have you that can help them recover.
I'm not sure how fecal exams are stressful on the frog or bad for them. There is a lot less stress involved with handling them than there is opening their tank, taking a piece of dung and shipping it off to a vet.
Another point, these things you mentioned, vet visits, meds, ect, are also not natural to an animal like a dog or a cat either, but I'm sure you would have no issue taking them? Yes, mammals and amphibians are totally different, but in this instance, not really. You made a decision to care for an animal, then why wouldn't you want to give it the best care possible?
Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
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Dogs and cats are domestic.
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And that means what? They deserve better care than a frog?
Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
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0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
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No, but frogs are not domestic pets. It's not safe to give them meds when they look a little off. Ever stop to wonder what you are actually giving your animal or if the vet really knows what he's talking about? In that business, they care about money not your frog. Do they have any proof that what they are telling you is true? Think about it.
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Yes, I have seen MANY miraculous recoveries by frogs on this forum and others I belong to because the owners went the extra mile and had their frogs diagnosed by a vet. Sure, some have passed, but most of those were too far gone from poor husbandry, that recovery was no longer an option.
As far as vets go, I have some exceptional amphibian vets in my area that have wonderful success records. I never hesitate to take them if necessary.
As far as your inquiries about their knowledge and being in it for the money, you capfuls say the same about human physicians as well.
Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
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0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
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I do think the same way about human physicians.
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In my opinion.. after reading all this..
All i would have to say is that NO living things, including plants or animals, are disposable!
You acquired them and by doing that, you become the care giver and the one they look up to to survive (yes! Including plants!)
So with that said, are you gonna throw it all away because one becomes ill? Wouldnt you be responsible in at least taking it a step further to fix it?
Its not because its old or broken that it has to be disposed of! No matter if its your fridge, your cactus or your frog! Especially when they depend on you to survive..
Make sense?
PS. I meant to add... if my dog or my frog were in excruating pain and the chances of survival would only be 20 percent, i probably would end their misery but i would definatly take the first step to try to fix them which would of been bringing them to the vet for a diagnostic at least..
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0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
0.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
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I think human emotions get in the way when caring for frogs. Does the frog really look up to you? For food, maybe. Honestly, frogs don't really care.
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Yes. Total sense, but there is a limit of course. Fecal exams are one thing but vet visits are stressful and unnecessary.
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Exactly sticky Sally. My thoughts exactly.
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Just wondering..
Why did you girls get frogs?
Is there a limit to treating any other pet? Or a human, for that matter? Please keep in mind that you are on an open forum where the members not only keep frogs, but think of them as children, part of their family. When you say things like this, you are insulting those very members.
You two girls seem like you are in the wrong hobby. Fish are seen as a disposable pet by most people, maybe you should try that one out instead.
Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
0.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
0.1.0 Bed Bully
Okay... For the last time....
Frog or no frog.. Whoever you take into your home is not a toy. Cat, dog, fish, hamster, bird or frog doesn't matter. It is your responsibility to provide an adequate housing, food, water and everything else that someone need, including vet care if/when needed. It is not optional. You can't or want do it, then don't take it home.
Im locking this thread.
Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!
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