UVB Lighting- An Absolute Essential For WTFS?

[irThumper]

Someone on FB is recommending UVB bulbs like ZooMed Reptisun 5.0 UVB Fluorescent bulbs or the Exo-Terra Reptile UVB Bulb... however these say they are for "diurnal reptiles"... WTFs, however, are nocturnal... so my question is this, most reptiles are not nocturnal like the frogs are... if the frogs are being supplemented with Calcium, D3, etc, on their food stuffs are the lamps completely essential? Especially considering a lot of frogs just hide in the shade of their leaves, plants, hides, substrate during daylight hours...?

His reply to my question: "The WTF comes from a large distribution area in australia... mainly queensland and from thick rainforest areas to sclerophyll forest area (gum trees, etc, lots of light gets through), in these areas a good amount of UVB still is available at ground level, in denser more rainforest areas they sleep higher up so they still get some UVB.

also there are plently of scientific papers outlining the need for UVB in WTF's and D3 absorption."

So... UVB Lamps + WTFs = Yes? No? Maybe...??

[teslas intern]

I have one for mine. Granted I am not knowledgeable in this respect at all (still total newb) but my plan is to switch out the UV bulb for a regular bulb when it gets cold (so right now, I should probably do that...) but this will help simulate summer/winter cycles, and possibly contribute to froggies well being? My thought is no, however, it is not necessary, but since they live in more or less tropical environment, it can't hurt, and won't be any different than what they would have in nature. If I'm wrong, I'm hoping someone on here will correct me!

[irThumper]

I have one for mine. Granted I am not knowledgeable in this respect at all (still total newb) but my plan is to switch out the UV bulb for a regular bulb when it gets cold (so right now, I should probably do that...) but this will help simulate summer/winter cycles, and possibly contribute to froggies well being? My thought is no, however, it is not necessary, but since they live in more or less tropical environment, it can't hurt, and won't be any different than what they would have in nature. If I'm wrong, I'm hoping someone on here will correct me!

I'm definitely wanting to know the same, and I'm a semi-newb, lol... lots of experience with Pacific chorus frogs over the years, but a new White's tree frog mom since Oct 1

[Mentat]

Someone on FB is recommending UVB bulbs like ZooMed Reptisun 5.0 UVB Fluorescent bulbs or the Exo-Terra Reptile UVB Bulb...

also there are plently of scientific papers outlining the need for UVB in Whites Tree Frog's and D3 absorption."

Think it's better we leave any concepts from FB, Wikipedia, YouTube, Twitter, etc. in their perspective locations. To have cross media discussions based on he/she said is kind of crazy .

One thing constantly see in these discussions, is that many supporters of supposedly needed UVB for frogs are quick to point out scientific research and papers that support it. However, not once have anyone provided a link to one single reference research paper with supporting experimental data. Just saying !

[irThumper]

Think it's better we leave any concepts from FB, Wikipedia, YouTube, Twitter, etc. in their perspective locations. To have cross media discussions based on he/she said is kind of crazy .

>>>>One thing constantly see in these discussions, is that many supporters of supposedly needed UVB for frogs are quick to point out scientific research and papers that support it. However, not once have anyone provided a link to one single reference research paper with supporting experimental data. Just saying<<<< !

LMBO! Hey, that's good enough for me, Carlos! It just disturbs me how a gal who was new to frogs asked this question on a FB WTF group, and this fella popped up with all that, but where indeed are these links to said research papers?? I'm just going with common sense really... The frogs are nocturnal, they hide away during the day, and their food is being supplemented to help with any deficiencies. So yeah... if someone is going to have metabolic probs with their frogs they will know it soon enough. I know one thing, I'm not keeping ANY light bulb within 4" of my frogs... and in a really large enclosure I don't know how you could even keep them within 12" of the light (that was what he was recommending anyway, 4" to 12"). So I'm going to say the jury is out on UVM lighting-- some say it's necessary (but can't necessarily back that up) and some say it isn't, and have never had an issue keeping frogs without it. In all the time we kept PCFs as a kid we never had any special lighting on them and the frogs were pretty darn healthy, the oldest living to the ripe old age of 8+ years (was adult when we got him- saved from a cat) and I come from the era of incandescent room lighting, so.... yeah, lol.

[Lija]

Think it's better we leave any concepts from FB, Wikipedia, YouTube, Twitter, etc. in their perspective locations. To have cross media discussions based on he/she said is kind of crazy .

One thing constantly see in these discussions, is that many supporters of supposedly needed UVB for frogs are quick to point out scientific research and papers that support it. However, not once have anyone provided a link to one single reference research paper with supporting experimental data. Just saying !

Lol carlos!

I saw a research data, will look for it, but it was done for dart frogs.

some frogs ( waxies) need high percentage uvb, others not, as long as food is properly supplemented.

its really weird thing for uvb, usually you see people who swear by using UVB, others yell about the opposite. Both sides are ready to kill each other to prove each other wrong. The problem is that nobody did a scientific study for tree frogs. I did see one done for darts though as I said, will try to locate it.

the best is to try to think how these frogs live in a wild, do they get UVB, or perhaps full spectrum and go with that.

Found it! Here you go https://aark.portal.isis.org/researc...tamin%20d3.pdf

[Bombina Bob]

Many species of frogs have been raised and bred living a long life with the absence of UV light. UVB isn't necessary but it's beneficial as well.

[irThumper]

Lol carlos!

I saw a research data, will look for it, but it was done for dart frogs.

some frogs ( waxies) need high percentage uvb, others not, as long as food is properly supplemented.

its really weird thing for uvb, usually you see people who swear by using UVB, others yell about the opposite. Both sides are ready to kill each other to prove each other wrong. The problem is that nobody did a scientific study for tree frogs. I did see one done for darts though as I said, will try to locate it.

the best is to try to think how these frogs live in a wild, do they get UVB, or perhaps full spectrum and go with that.

Found it! Here you go https://aark.portal.isis.org/researc...tamin%20d3.pdf

It does exist!!!

[deranged chipmunk]

I have read articles that say uvb is beneficial for darts as well, but my issue lies in the fact that dart frog vivariums are sealed in glass, which blocks most uvb rays. Uvb and uvc are short wave rays and glass might as well be opaque to them. Glass will allow a small amount of uva rays through, but not many. So how exactly does uvb benefit darts in captivity?


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Mentat]

Lol carlos! I saw a research data, will look for it, but it was done for dart frogs. ...Found it! Here you go https://aark.portal.isis.org/researchguide/amphibian%20zoo%20studies/amphibian%20uv-b%20and%20vitamin%20d3.pdf

Hi Lija! The article you linked is a summary of information the authors found and a proposal of ways to conduct related research; but there is no experimental research conducted by authors that provides a backbone for anyone to state frogs need UVB and if so; how much?

What I'm looking for is a report of actual scientific experimentation in a laboratory. Research with control subjects and statistical analysis; that either supports or not a hypothesis based in the need for UVB light exposure for any frog species. Maybe the authors or others have conducted experiments after this article release? Thank you !

[Frogfeet123]

Like Ryan said, I've heard it's not necessary but is beneficial. I use one for mine. C

[LilyPad]

I used UVB lighting for my greys for the first 3 years that I had them. Over the summer, I switched to LED lighting instead and have seen absolutely no change in their behaviors. It leads me to believe that it's not really necessary and the supplements they get are sufficient for good health.

[teslas intern]

At the very least can we not do a poll on here for long term frog keepers and see who is using the UV lights, and how long their frogs are living?

[deranged chipmunk]

While that sounds like a good idea, the reality is that there are too many variables involved with frog keeping that would affect life spans that it wouldn't even be close to accurate.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Lija]

Lol carlos, that's the best I can do

seriuosly though. For a tree frogs I wouldn't bother with uvb, unless for waxies, but uvb is used in treating MBD, in vet literature it's also reccomended that uvb to be used for 2-4 hours a day during a period of rapid growth for all very fast growing frogs (except albinos) as profilactic measure. My thinking is if to use proper food and it's properly supplemented UVB not needed for most frogs.

I'm using uvb in my zoo only for breeding cresties, agricolae and pyxie. Everybody else is just fine without UVB.

to be also noted to the best of my knowledge, UVB bulbs need to be replaced every 6 months.

[Mentat]

Sorry Lija; not trying to be a PITA . It's just that many persons make the most outrageous claims and pull a non-existing scientific reference out of thin air to back their statements. As a trained scientist (BS in Botany and MS in Phycology); find that very annoying .

You are breeding Pixies as in Geckoes or GABFs?

[Lija]

Carlos Lol it's ok sometimes that's how we find out the truth.

sry had to be more specific. I use uvb for pixie that I have one and only and he is not ever going to be breeding. My reasoning is they spend lots of time in a wild out in a open, and they do get lots of sunlight.
I use uvb for breeding cresties as well. I did my own little research on uvb for breeding geckos as there were fights going on message boards on if it's needed or not, it wasn't by any definition scientific research, but I did see substantial improvement in egg calcification and hatching rate, it was all proof I needed, im using it for a few years now, but only for a breeding pairs during their breeding season. Right now is a winter time in a basement, no uvb for anybody

[Mentat]

I added a small UVB tropical CF bulb on Duncan's (mini GABF) enclosure last Spring and after couple hours exposure he moved away from it and took cover under some silk plants. Moved light to corner farthest from his hanging off area and that appeared to be OK. He seems not to care about it being on or off a few hours every day .

[LilyPad]

I added a small UVB tropical CF bulb on Duncan's (mini GABF) enclosure last Spring and after couple hours exposure he moved away from it and took cover under some silk plants. Moved light to corner farthest from his hanging off area and that appeared to be OK. He seems not to care about it being on or off a few hours every day .

That's interesting, none of my greys ever moved away from it, but Atlas seemed to have a burn like mark on his head last spring after getting new UV bulbs. (Before that, he was in QT with just an incandescent on the tank.) I thought it was from an incandescent that I used to heat, but even removing that, the mark was still there. When I switched to LED, it finally healed up. Made me wonder if the UV was too strong for the size of tank and the greys. None of my other 3 ever had an issue like that, but Atlas slept as close as possible to the lights, where the other 3 kept a bit of distance from them.