Impaction: be concerned or not?

[elly]

My White's, Bonk (probably) hasn't pooped for over a week. How concerned should I be? When does impaction become a serious problem? I'm wondering if I need to try to give him another warm bath even though it's stressful for him. Day before yesterday I gave him a warm bath with a little pedialyte. In the morning, there was something in the water dish, but it looked far more like a bunch of shed skin that somehow rolled into a loose ball. He has been more or less accepting food every two days, but will no longer tong feed. There's nothing in his cage that could have caused impaction, but he's had some crickets that were probably a bit too large. Also the temperature has been a bit low. 70-75, sometimes up to 77. Humidity has hovered at 60%. In general he's not calling, is shyer than usual and doesn't seem like himself. (((Note: I can't make proper spaces with this computer and it's driving me crazy.)))

[irThumper]

Wish I had an answer for you on this one :/ My frogs aren't going as much as I know these guys can go either, don't know if that's from the medication or the fact I'm feeding them smaller crickets or what. A lot of time they'll go in the water dish and then I can't tell how much they've actually gone, and sometimes it's just still a watery mess of stuff. I haven't found any jelly poo at all lately (*knock on wood*) though, so I'm hoping the medicine is helping with intestinal irritation at any rate. Humidity sounds ok, 70 is definitely on the low side. I like my guys preferably around 75 F at night and 77-80 F during the day.

I wonder if there is anything that can be given for constipation... extra virgin organic coconut oil in a wax worm maybe?? I put some of that on sHEila's prolapse and he was fine, it helped lube him and keep the membrane from drying out (the sugar helped retract the prolapse but I think the oil did help), I just don't know how it would be inside the frog...

[elly]

still nothing.

[irThumper]

still nothing.

I'm sorry... This sounds weird but, praying for poo!

[elly]

Heh, thanks. I'm just concerned because I've heard that if frogs eat before hibernation the food can ferment in their stomach and kill them. I'm not planning on hibernating mine, of course, but you see why I'm worried. I think I'll try another warm bath tonight.

[irThumper]

Heh, thanks. I'm just concerned because I've heard that if frogs eat before hibernation the food can ferment in their stomach and kill them. I'm not planning on hibernating mine, of course, but you see why I'm worried. I think I'll try another warm bath tonight.

Yikes! That's something I didn't know Hope the bath helps!

[elly]

still nothing despite the warm bath last night. :/
He noticed the cricket container next to his tank and tried to get at them, so he's hungry. I don't know what that means.

[Lija]

It might mean he is hungry give some food, and if you do a bath try to add a little bit of honey to the bath. It acts as natural laxative.

impacted frogs are very very rarely are interested in food. I bet you just didn't see the poop.

[elly]

Thanks! Yeah, I could have sworn that thing in the bowl was shed skin- the right color, the right texture.

Right now Bonk is staring at the dubia in the plastic bowl I put in his cage. He's curious, but seems like he's decided that it's impossible to reach.

...And now he's back to hiding. Apparently he's decided I exist to torment him and give him baths. He's not used to being handled so much.

[irThumper]

Bonk, you uncooperative critter! Have you tried earthworm with him rather than roaches? Less indigestible material to them. Hope he eats and poos soon!

[elly]

I tried, but apparently my Wal-Mart only gets shipments of nightcrawlers on Thursdays and Fridays and they clear out in between. I'm getting some as soon as possible and I'm making do with tiny dubias till then.

[irThumper]

If I don't find some locally I'm thinking of ordering from Josh's Frogs, might be an idea for you too Worms - Feeder Insects and Supplies | Josh's Frogs

[Mentat]

White's day temps need to reach 85F; that is not an optional target. And yes; the heads and hard parts of a too large cricke, that exceeds the distance between a frog's eye, can cause an impaction. Hope your frog is not impacted and maybe just constipated.

[elly]

Thanks, I'd thought the daytime target was 80F. I'm switching to small crickets and earthworms for now.

[irThumper]

I have heard and readevery thing I can get my hands on from experts in the Whites Tree Frog field- wild and captive- that they accept a wide range of temperatures. I've been told that 80F daytime is ideal and that 77F daytime and 75F nighttime is perfectly acceptable... anything much lower then that and you run into issues. (Unless cycling them).

[elly]

Okay I've raised temperatures, but I still haven't seen any evidence. Even if the 'ball of skin' was actually poop he should have gone again by now. He really hates getting baths, but I may have to give him another with honey. If this doesn't work, what comes next that isn't surgery? My herp vet is the only one in the city and he isn't experienced with frogs, I don't think he could operate on one.

[elly]

If I'm out of honey, would sugar be an effective substitute laxative?

[irThumper]

Sorry to hear he hasn't gone yet I'm a bit concerned about Jelly Bean too, he's very plump looking and I haven't seen any poop from him for a few days either. He's also had loose/unformed poo too, like Shirley and Honey, so you'd think I would have seen something, in the water or elsewhere... I fasted him on Tues night, and again last night; Weds he had a couple small wax worms and Thurs & Friday he had just a few small crickets. I hope he will eat his medicated wax worm tonight and then go, if he doesn't I'll try a warm honey bath on him too...

[elly]

Okay all my questions in simplified form together: 1. What treatments are there for impaction besides warm baths and honey baths in case they don't work? 2. Is sugar an acceptable substitute if I have no honey? Does it have a laxative effect? 3. At what point does impaction usually become fatal? How long does it take? Does the frog starve to death or do the guts putrify? 4. I'm working with a frog that's become terrified of me since I've given him warm baths, any suggestions on dealing with a fearful frog?

[irThumper]

Okay all my questions in simplified form together: 1. What treatments are there for impaction besides warm baths and honey baths in case they don't work? 2. Is sugar an acceptable substitute if I have no honey? Does it have a laxative effect? 3. At what point does impaction usually become fatal? How long does it take? Does the frog starve to death or do the guts putrify? 4. I'm working with a frog that's become terrified of me since I've given him warm baths, any suggestions on dealing with a fearful frog?

I hope someone can answer these questions for you! I don't know how the honey works myself, just figuring folks have the experience & know how where I don't. All I know about the sugar is it reduces inflammation of prolapse tissue. Is he still eating? If he's eating I doubt he's impacted... if you can get him to eat maybe see if you can find SMALL domestically raised hornworms to feed him? I've heard they are living water balloons and tend to make poo soft...

You know Frog'sFascinated (Emily?) and her poor frog, Pogo? Her mom, the former vet tech, said she gave Pogo an enema... maybe she can give you a clue on how to do that?? My guess is though that folks are going to say to get Bonk back to the vet...