FB Toads not eating ?

[Barry]

I'm getting a bit concerned that my 4 FBT's don't appear to be eating.
These were toads rescued from an owner who could no longer look after them. When i first got them (about 2 months ago) they were very good feeders, eating crickets, woodlice and earthworms on a daily basis.
They still look healthy and active enough but I haven't seen them take any food for about 2 weeks. Nothing has changed in the viv ,other than reducing the UVb output of my light (it was probably a bit too high at first) . Water changes are weekly , temperature remains at approx. 18 -22º, no bloating or dull eyes etc.
I'm wondering if they feed at night (when it's dark and I can't see them?). I've reduced the daylight hours slightly to reflect the time of year, but don't think this is the cause.
It's a pretty natural viv so I think there is probably a source of live food available at all times.
Would there be a natural reduction in feeding at this time of year , despite artificial lighting?
Am I worrying too much?

[Frogman1031]

Please answer these questions
Numbered, specific and highlighted if possible

1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

[Barry]

Thanks - Answers in red :


1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species) : Bombina orientalis x4
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure : See attached
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" ) : 24x18x18"
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? ) : 4x adults similar size
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate : No
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined : N/a
8----what is the typical humidity level : 68%
9----what temperature is maintained : 18-22ºC
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure : Room ambient/ flourescent tube
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically) : 24" Arcadia natural sunlight
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc) : Complete water change weekly
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting : None
-----for the frog's soaking dish : (semi aquatic viv) Rainwater
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand : N/a
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific : Large gravel. Moss over /cocoa fiber/clay pebbles
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned :N/a
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric : Live (unknown sp. from specialist reptile stockist)
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials : Gorilla glue/ cocoa substrate mix
16---when is the last time the frog ate : 2 weeks ago
17---have you found poop lately : N/a
18---how often is the frog fed : Daily
19---what size feeder is given : 4mm brown crickets, calci worms ,earthworms, woodlice
20---what other feeders are used as treats : house spiders
21---what is the frog's main food source : crickets
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed : Both
23---vitamins - what brand and how often Repashy Calcium + , Vit A weekly
24---calcium - what brand and how often : Repashy Calcium + , weekly
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time : Unknown (rescued)
26---approximate age of the frog : Unknown (rescued)
27---how long have you owned the frog : 2 months
28---who cared for the frog before you : Unknown
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred : Unknown
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves) : Never
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area : Medium
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no) : unknown
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication: No
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet[/QUOTE]

[dj1]

Nice looking viv, may be the water area is to bare, try putting plants in real or artificial, in mine I use water cress and pond weed, this may make them more secure, and allows the feeder insect to clamber about if they end up in the water, this in turn seams to stimulate the feeding behavior. The light cycle for mine is 08.00 t0 20:00 all the time, they are the European species though. a few more logs etc on the land and into or over the water area may also help them, possibly they feel intimidated by each other and have stressed them selves out, of course they may have been starving when you first got them and now don't need quite so much to eat. My own aren't as hungry as they were when I got them, but are now 3 times the size sub adults. As long as the temps are the same I wouldn't fret to much, I'm sure they will feed as and when they want as long as food is available, are they pooping OK if so then they are feeding.

[Barry]

Thanks, I would normally have some aquatic plants in there but it's started leaking so I'm waiting on a new viv from Custom Aquaria.
I'm not sure that I've ever seen them poop - isn't it just a liquid?

[dj1]

Thanks, I would normally have some aquatic plants in there but it's started leaking so I'm waiting on a new viv from Custom Aquaria.
I'm not sure that I've ever seen them poop - isn't it just a liquid?

No the droppings are firm and should resemble a plump soft mouse dropping and very often they do it in the water and usually just after a water change, try putting slightly warmer water in and see what happens, it occurs in minutes of the water change.

[Kathryn Dorn]

Have you tried monitoring their weights? If not, I'd recommend starting that now. I used to use a postage scale to weigh my frogs, especially my last fire-belly, Almond, who also went through a time where he wouldn't eat anything and definitely lost weight. My vet eventually recommended force-feeding him canned cat food to keep his weight stable and keep his digestive system functioning until he started eating insects on his own again. I had to (gently) pry open his mouth with a business card, then try to (gently!) squirt the cat food into his mouth with a syringe before he could push the business card out of his mouth with his front feet, and we both hated the process, so I hope you don't have to do that for your toads and that they're actually just eating when you're not looking...
And, yes, healthy toads excrete fairly often (mine excreted about as often as I fed them, if I'm remembering correctly, or about every other day - I fed them in a separate cage without any furniture or water so the toads wouldn't get distracted, the insects couldn't drown or hide and attack the toads later, and I knew exactly how much they were eating). If you don't clean out the whole cage, though, I guess they could be excreting in a place where you wouldn't find it? If only one of your toads wasn't eating and excreting, I'd be worried that he/she might have swallowed a piece of gravel and blocked his/her digestive system, but it seems unlikely that all four toads would make the same mistake at once...still, if the gravel pieces are small enough to fit in a toad's mouth, you might want to remove the gravel just in case (and bring the toads in to a vet if they're showing any symptoms of impaction).
Best of luck to you and your toads!