Crazy as a box of frogs

[DEW]

"crazy as a box of frogs, meaning and history of this idiom, also known as mad as a box of frogs. The next time someone says that a person or situation is as mad as a box of frogs, you can be certain what’s being described is a crazy state of mind. It’s an odd expression to say the least since having a box of frogs isn’t something most people would keep, but it certainly goes to the heart of how crazy being mad as a box of frogs surely is."

By That definition I am certifiable since I have several boxes. Example at end of post.

So this is what is left of the thousands that were in the pool, the clutch from August.

I released approximately 600 hundred on the property across the street, bottom land, Lots too steep to build on but has a variety of ferns, lots of moss, a small creek, lots of trees. Another 400- 500 went to the property behind our house and down the hill which has similar habitat.

As it got colder the remaining tadpoles were just not growing or just dying so I caught them and brought them all in.
As they warmed up they began to grow again. As they started to morph I moved them to another tank that allowed them to crawl up onto a sort of bank.Once they had moved out of the water they went into a terrarium with moss and plants etc.

Now they are separated into groups;
Kindergarten;Still tadpoles,
1st grade; Still resorbing their tails,
2ed grade;Morphed but less than half an inch (exceptionally small or not thriving),
3rd grade; Those that are eating well and even though smaller than normal are still robust, they are the ones pictured.The box contains about 75 ( they kept jumping out and I lost count) In all there are about 125 froglets and tadpoles.

I just placed an order for additional enclosures,( they are in critter keepers, aquariums and pictured is a Really useful box that's the name and they really are!) I ordered a mister, active fruit fly cultures, fruit fly culturing kits, some kind of tiny worms, calcium for dusting, fake moss mat for easier cleaning (we have several species of moss in abundance but cleaning it is too time consuming at this stage)
They were out of pinhead crickets so they won't come until next week. cricket food and water...

My questions are;

Is there anything else I need?
My water is safe, deep well water and it is what they were raised in.

Anything I should be doing?

Are there tadpoles that never morph at all? I have one that is the same as he was a couple months ago, seems happy, eating well just not growing, all the others have passed him up.

And, what about handling them? I wash my hands obsessively first but my problem is they are so small that I am afraid of hurting them, is there a special way to do it?

They also hang on the sides of the tanks and try jumping out as soon as I open it, anyway to stop that? The cats sit around watching and I know they are cheering the frogs on hoping I'll miss at least one.

I'm sure there are things I don't even know to ask. I read the care sheets but they seem to leave out rearing this many at this stage of development in a captive situation.

The place I ordered the stuff from said they most likely would not have survived having been hatched so late in the year, Definitely not if they had not been in my swimming pool.

Any help in getting them through the winter alive and healthy would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

[DEW]

Don't know what happened to the pictures, lets see if this works...



Box of frogs and the tiny tadpole.

[elly]

I didn't answer your questions earlier, because I don't really know how to, but wow, it looks like you're doing a lot of work. I have one young frog and it's eating pinhead crickets like there's no tomorrow. You might need more small insects than you think you will.

[irThumper]

Um..... wow. So, first question: What type of frogs are these guys? The small tad might be a different species...? You definitely have your work cut out for you!

[flybyferns]

Um..... wow. So, first question: What type of frogs are these guys? The small tad might be a different species...? You definitely have your work cut out for you!

Yes ! This is an important question.
The frogs need to be identified.
You're in N Carolina...?
Any idea at all as to this species you have so many of ?

[irThumper]

Frogs and Toads of North Carolina

Link to native frogs of North Carolina

[DEW]

Um..... wow. So, first question: What type of frogs are these guys? The small tad might be a different species...? You definitely have your work cut out for you!

irThumper and Lynn,
I apologize,


I posted more information three weeks ago,http://http://www.frogforum.net/tree...ree-frogs.html
They are Gray Tree Frogs, Common, not Copes.
The only frogs I ever saw in the pool or heard calling were grays (there was one night I heard a faint call of a pickerel) the boisterous chorus of the Grays all but drowned him out. All of the tadpoles and the froglets that developed looked like grays, first and second pool full, all together I would guess there were at least 4000. There were 2 tadpoles that still looked like this about three weeks ago, all of the others were at least as large and advanced as the one pictured with him. I haven't seen the other since a couple days before I rounded them up and brought them in. The water temp dropped from 55 degrees F. to 33 very rapidly when we had some really cold weather all of the sudden. When they began to die instead of maturing and leaving on their own, I decided to take the leap and bring those remaining inside.This little tadpole in the picture ( his name is sperm , while I was lamenting his size my husband grinned and said "Well at least he is still very motile" that sealed it. He is at least 8-10 weeks old, (tadpole, not my husband ) are there any NC species that have long lasting tadpole-hoods ?

As far as having my work cut out for me, you have no idea, lol. I foster for the humane society and have more cats and kittens than I care to count, ferals I am taming, most are being medicated for one thing or other, I have three different rooms of quarantined kittens with three different conditions. I do all of the vaccinations and worming for all our fosters... So yes, I am busy and I told myself there was no way I was going to have the time to take care of all of these froggy-kids all winter... and yet... Thus the title of this post.

I have done wildlife rehab, never once did anyone bring me a frog.

Basic husbandry I have down. Most of the medications mentioned in the emergency/medicine cabinet I already have on hand. Some formulations (percentage of active ingredient) are different but can be converted.There are a couple of things I need to add.

Ordinarily I would do a bunch of research, and I have done some rather than ask you all tons of questions I am sure you roll your eyes at and (possibly even graciously) answer again and again. My Research was by no means exhaustive,I am just hoping someone takes pity on me when I do ask stupid questions, lol. Then I can at least hope for a chance to sleep

Zack at Joshes Frogs told me I would need to house them in groups of 20 so that when disease breaks out it is limited to one group. I would like to think I could avoid illness for just one winter if I work at it ( is that naive?)I do have every intention of giving them a lot more space, which will automatically require splitting them up into smaller groups, thats just common sence.

I do know that the biggest health risk to exotics is... stupidity, I mean... no, stupidity just about covers it.
Seriously, diet and environment .

So I ordered a small-ish fortune in supplies yesterday and to vary their diet beyond what I ordered I collected termites from fallen trees along with a few small brown ants today while I was walking my dog. The little froggies loved the termites! One little guy did try for the biggest one and ended up with half a termite hanging out of his mouth, I think it freaked him out a bit, he sat completely motionless for at least an hour while it continued to writhe and wiggle.

2:30am kittens need bottles and are letting me know it.

Thank you all in advance for your patience,
DEW

[irThumper]

irThumper and Lynn,
I apologize,


I posted more information three weeks ago,http://http://www.frogforum.net/tree...ree-frogs.html
They are Gray Tree Frogs, Common, not Copes.
The only frogs I ever saw in the pool or heard calling were grays (there was one night I heard a faint call of a pickerel) the boisterous chorus of the Grays all but drowned him out. All of the tadpoles and the froglets that developed looked like grays, first and second pool full, all together I would guess there were at least 4000. There were 2 tadpoles that still looked like this about three weeks ago, all of the others were at least as large and advanced as the one pictured with him. I haven't seen the other since a couple days before I rounded them up and brought them in. The water temp dropped from 55 degrees F. to 33 very rapidly when we had some really cold weather all of the sudden. When they began to die instead of maturing and leaving on their own, I decided to take the leap and bring those remaining inside.This little tadpole in the picture ( his name is sperm , while I was lamenting his size my husband grinned and said "Well at least he is still very motile" that sealed it. He is at least 8-10 weeks old, (tadpole, not my husband ) are there any NC species that have long lasting tadpole-hoods ?

As far as having my work cut out for me, you have no idea, lol. I foster for the humane society and have more cats and kittens than I care to count, ferals I am taming, most are being medicated for one thing or other, I have three different rooms of quarantined kittens with three different conditions. I do all of the vaccinations and worming for all our fosters... So yes, I am busy and I told myself there was no way I was going to have the time to take care of all of these froggy-kids all winter... and yet... Thus the title of this post.

I have done wildlife rehab, never once did anyone bring me a frog.

Basic husbandry I have down. Most of the medications mentioned in the emergency/medicine cabinet I already have on hand. Some formulations (percentage of active ingredient) are different but can be converted.There are a couple of things I need to add.

Ordinarily I would do a bunch of research, and I have done some rather than ask you all tons of questions I am sure you roll your eyes at and (possibly even graciously) answer again and again. My Research was by no means exhaustive,I am just hoping someone takes pity on me when I do ask stupid questions, lol. Then I can at least hope for a chance to sleep

Zack at Joshes Frogs told me I would need to house them in groups of 20 so that when disease breaks out it is limited to one group. I would like to think I could avoid illness for just one winter if I work at it ( is that naive?)I do have every intention of giving them a lot more space, which will automatically require splitting them up into smaller groups, thats just common sence.

I do know that the biggest health risk to exotics is... stupidity, I mean... no, stupidity just about covers it.
Seriously, diet and environment .

So I ordered a small-ish fortune in supplies yesterday and to vary their diet beyond what I ordered I collected termites from fallen trees along with a few small brown ants today while I was walking my dog. The little froggies loved the termites! One little guy did try for the biggest one and ended up with half a termite hanging out of his mouth, I think it freaked him out a bit, he sat completely motionless for at least an hour while it continued to writhe and wiggle.

2:30am kittens need bottles and are letting me know it.

Thank you all in advance for your patience,
DEW

My hat's off to you, you do indeed have your hands more than full! I'm glad you saved these guys, particulalry if they are common Grays (Hyla versicolor is listed as Significantly Rare by the N.C. Natural Heritage Program.) I've never raised tads and froglets so will leave answers to those with more experience than myself in this area, but I wish you all the best of luck and would love to read further updates!