Crazy as a box of frogs

[DEW]

"crazy as a box of frogs, meaning and history of this idiom, also known as mad as a box of frogs. The next time someone says that a person or situation is as mad as a box of frogs, you can be certain what’s being described is a crazy state of mind. It’s an odd expression to say the least since having a box of frogs isn’t something most people would keep, but it certainly goes to the heart of how crazy being mad as a box of frogs surely is."

By That definition I am certifiable since I have several boxes. Example at end of post.

So this is what is left of the thousands that were in the pool, the clutch from August.

I released approximately 600 hundred on the property across the street, bottom land, Lots too steep to build on but has a variety of ferns, lots of moss, a small creek, lots of trees. Another 400- 500 went to the property behind our house and down the hill which has similar habitat.

As it got colder the remaining tadpoles were just not growing or just dying so I caught them and brought them all in.
As they warmed up they began to grow again. As they started to morph I moved them to another tank that allowed them to crawl up onto a sort of bank.Once they had moved out of the water they went into a terrarium with moss and plants etc.

Now they are separated into groups;
Kindergarten;Still tadpoles,
1st grade; Still resorbing their tails,
2ed grade;Morphed but less than half an inch (exceptionally small or not thriving),
3rd grade; Those that are eating well and even though smaller than normal are still robust, they are the ones pictured.The box contains about 75 ( they kept jumping out and I lost count) In all there are about 125 froglets and tadpoles.

I just placed an order for additional enclosures,( they are in critter keepers, aquariums and pictured is a Really useful box that's the name and they really are!) I ordered a mister, active fruit fly cultures, fruit fly culturing kits, some kind of tiny worms, calcium for dusting, fake moss mat for easier cleaning (we have several species of moss in abundance but cleaning it is too time consuming at this stage)
They were out of pinhead crickets so they won't come until next week. cricket food and water...

My questions are;

Is there anything else I need?
My water is safe, deep well water and it is what they were raised in.

Anything I should be doing?

Are there tadpoles that never morph at all? I have one that is the same as he was a couple months ago, seems happy, eating well just not growing, all the others have passed him up.

And, what about handling them? I wash my hands obsessively first but my problem is they are so small that I am afraid of hurting them, is there a special way to do it?

They also hang on the sides of the tanks and try jumping out as soon as I open it, anyway to stop that? The cats sit around watching and I know they are cheering the frogs on hoping I'll miss at least one.

I'm sure there are things I don't even know to ask. I read the care sheets but they seem to leave out rearing this many at this stage of development in a captive situation.

The place I ordered the stuff from said they most likely would not have survived having been hatched so late in the year, Definitely not if they had not been in my swimming pool.

Any help in getting them through the winter alive and healthy would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

[DEW]

Don't know what happened to the pictures, lets see if this works...



Box of frogs and the tiny tadpole.

[elly]

I didn't answer your questions earlier, because I don't really know how to, but wow, it looks like you're doing a lot of work. I have one young frog and it's eating pinhead crickets like there's no tomorrow. You might need more small insects than you think you will.

[irThumper]

Um..... wow. So, first question: What type of frogs are these guys? The small tad might be a different species...? You definitely have your work cut out for you!

[flybyferns]

Um..... wow. So, first question: What type of frogs are these guys? The small tad might be a different species...? You definitely have your work cut out for you!

Yes ! This is an important question.
The frogs need to be identified.
You're in N Carolina...?
Any idea at all as to this species you have so many of ?

[irThumper]

Frogs and Toads of North Carolina

Link to native frogs of North Carolina

[DEW]

Um..... wow. So, first question: What type of frogs are these guys? The small tad might be a different species...? You definitely have your work cut out for you!

irThumper and Lynn,
I apologize,


I posted more information three weeks ago,http://http://www.frogforum.net/tree...ree-frogs.html
They are Gray Tree Frogs, Common, not Copes.
The only frogs I ever saw in the pool or heard calling were grays (there was one night I heard a faint call of a pickerel) the boisterous chorus of the Grays all but drowned him out. All of the tadpoles and the froglets that developed looked like grays, first and second pool full, all together I would guess there were at least 4000. There were 2 tadpoles that still looked like this about three weeks ago, all of the others were at least as large and advanced as the one pictured with him. I haven't seen the other since a couple days before I rounded them up and brought them in. The water temp dropped from 55 degrees F. to 33 very rapidly when we had some really cold weather all of the sudden. When they began to die instead of maturing and leaving on their own, I decided to take the leap and bring those remaining inside.This little tadpole in the picture ( his name is sperm , while I was lamenting his size my husband grinned and said "Well at least he is still very motile" that sealed it. He is at least 8-10 weeks old, (tadpole, not my husband ) are there any NC species that have long lasting tadpole-hoods ?

As far as having my work cut out for me, you have no idea, lol. I foster for the humane society and have more cats and kittens than I care to count, ferals I am taming, most are being medicated for one thing or other, I have three different rooms of quarantined kittens with three different conditions. I do all of the vaccinations and worming for all our fosters... So yes, I am busy and I told myself there was no way I was going to have the time to take care of all of these froggy-kids all winter... and yet... Thus the title of this post.

I have done wildlife rehab, never once did anyone bring me a frog.

Basic husbandry I have down. Most of the medications mentioned in the emergency/medicine cabinet I already have on hand. Some formulations (percentage of active ingredient) are different but can be converted.There are a couple of things I need to add.

Ordinarily I would do a bunch of research, and I have done some rather than ask you all tons of questions I am sure you roll your eyes at and (possibly even graciously) answer again and again. My Research was by no means exhaustive,I am just hoping someone takes pity on me when I do ask stupid questions, lol. Then I can at least hope for a chance to sleep

Zack at Joshes Frogs told me I would need to house them in groups of 20 so that when disease breaks out it is limited to one group. I would like to think I could avoid illness for just one winter if I work at it ( is that naive?)I do have every intention of giving them a lot more space, which will automatically require splitting them up into smaller groups, thats just common sence.

I do know that the biggest health risk to exotics is... stupidity, I mean... no, stupidity just about covers it.
Seriously, diet and environment .

So I ordered a small-ish fortune in supplies yesterday and to vary their diet beyond what I ordered I collected termites from fallen trees along with a few small brown ants today while I was walking my dog. The little froggies loved the termites! One little guy did try for the biggest one and ended up with half a termite hanging out of his mouth, I think it freaked him out a bit, he sat completely motionless for at least an hour while it continued to writhe and wiggle.

2:30am kittens need bottles and are letting me know it.

Thank you all in advance for your patience,
DEW

[irThumper]

irThumper and Lynn,
I apologize,


I posted more information three weeks ago,http://http://www.frogforum.net/tree...ree-frogs.html
They are Gray Tree Frogs, Common, not Copes.
The only frogs I ever saw in the pool or heard calling were grays (there was one night I heard a faint call of a pickerel) the boisterous chorus of the Grays all but drowned him out. All of the tadpoles and the froglets that developed looked like grays, first and second pool full, all together I would guess there were at least 4000. There were 2 tadpoles that still looked like this about three weeks ago, all of the others were at least as large and advanced as the one pictured with him. I haven't seen the other since a couple days before I rounded them up and brought them in. The water temp dropped from 55 degrees F. to 33 very rapidly when we had some really cold weather all of the sudden. When they began to die instead of maturing and leaving on their own, I decided to take the leap and bring those remaining inside.This little tadpole in the picture ( his name is sperm , while I was lamenting his size my husband grinned and said "Well at least he is still very motile" that sealed it. He is at least 8-10 weeks old, (tadpole, not my husband ) are there any NC species that have long lasting tadpole-hoods ?

As far as having my work cut out for me, you have no idea, lol. I foster for the humane society and have more cats and kittens than I care to count, ferals I am taming, most are being medicated for one thing or other, I have three different rooms of quarantined kittens with three different conditions. I do all of the vaccinations and worming for all our fosters... So yes, I am busy and I told myself there was no way I was going to have the time to take care of all of these froggy-kids all winter... and yet... Thus the title of this post.

I have done wildlife rehab, never once did anyone bring me a frog.

Basic husbandry I have down. Most of the medications mentioned in the emergency/medicine cabinet I already have on hand. Some formulations (percentage of active ingredient) are different but can be converted.There are a couple of things I need to add.

Ordinarily I would do a bunch of research, and I have done some rather than ask you all tons of questions I am sure you roll your eyes at and (possibly even graciously) answer again and again. My Research was by no means exhaustive,I am just hoping someone takes pity on me when I do ask stupid questions, lol. Then I can at least hope for a chance to sleep

Zack at Joshes Frogs told me I would need to house them in groups of 20 so that when disease breaks out it is limited to one group. I would like to think I could avoid illness for just one winter if I work at it ( is that naive?)I do have every intention of giving them a lot more space, which will automatically require splitting them up into smaller groups, thats just common sence.

I do know that the biggest health risk to exotics is... stupidity, I mean... no, stupidity just about covers it.
Seriously, diet and environment .

So I ordered a small-ish fortune in supplies yesterday and to vary their diet beyond what I ordered I collected termites from fallen trees along with a few small brown ants today while I was walking my dog. The little froggies loved the termites! One little guy did try for the biggest one and ended up with half a termite hanging out of his mouth, I think it freaked him out a bit, he sat completely motionless for at least an hour while it continued to writhe and wiggle.

2:30am kittens need bottles and are letting me know it.

Thank you all in advance for your patience,
DEW

My hat's off to you, you do indeed have your hands more than full! I'm glad you saved these guys, particulalry if they are common Grays (Hyla versicolor is listed as Significantly Rare by the N.C. Natural Heritage Program.) I've never raised tads and froglets so will leave answers to those with more experience than myself in this area, but I wish you all the best of luck and would love to read further updates!

[DEW]

My hat's off to you, you do indeed have your hands more than full! I'm glad you saved these guys, particulalry if they are common Grays (Hyla versicolor is listed as Significantly Rare by the N.C. Natural Heritage Program.) I've never raised tads and froglets so will leave answers to those with more experience than myself in this area, but I wish you all the best of luck and would love to read further updates!

I thought that these guys were not rare? I must have gotten something wrong. I know copes in limited to one county in NC but I thought the Hyla versicolor ( also called common gray tree frog) So, the common gray is not so common?,

Thanks for the info. will look that up in the morning. Ive got 3 hours till kitties have to be fed again.

[irThumper]

Lol, no problem! And I just connected you with the cocci kitty post... lol. I was thinking, "Hmm, where else did I read about someone with frogs and kitties...?" I've been down with a respiratory bug for a week so lacking in sleep myself, lol. Here's info on the Grays in NC. I love GTFs, would love to have had some myself but our state doesn't allow them, *sniff*

[elly]

Hmm, if you have any diseased plants I've read in a thread here that frogs seem to like aphids. You might want to check the nutritional value though.

[DEW]

I'm sorry your not feeling well.Hate it when I am sick and still have to do stuff, there should always e someone to take over all of your chores and then wait on you hand and foot, I have an app that is a service bell, the last time I was sick my husband just happened to be home and I used the heck out of it, I love that app.

[irThumper]

I'm also caregiver for my senior mom (who is a stroke survivor) so I could definitely use some help like that!! I forgot to add the link about the Grays... here it is Gray Treefrog - North Carolina

[irThumper]

Hmm, if you have any diseased plants I've read in a thread here that frogs seem to like aphids. You might want to check the nutritional value though.

Good thought... except that they might have eaten off plants that were sprayed! One reason I won't feed wild caught bugs to my 'Phibs. I know these are wild froggies, but still...

[DEW]

I'm also caregiver for my senior mom (who is a stroke survivor) so I could definitely use some help like that!! I forgot to add the link about the Grays... here it is Gray Treefrog - North Carolina

You really do have your hands full.

The Link to the NC frog page is what I originally used to find out what type frogs these were. We had the adults ( males) hanging around the pool all day so I had a good picture to go by, then listening to the calls was cool and a big help. A few days after I used the site the first time was when I saw the pickerel frog, I had never seen one before and it was so pretty, I was able to identify it by it's call, they really do sound like a person snoring ( believe me I know, lol) Unfortunately that was the only one I ever saw.

[DEW]

Good thought... except that they might have eaten off plants that were sprayed! One reason I won't feed wild caught bugs to my 'Phibs. I know these are wild froggies, but still...

I got the termites from under rotting logs on our property, we never use insecticides or even fertilizers. We didn't cut down all our trees and plant non native species of plants like just about everyone else around here does, not even a lawn. So we don't have harmful runoff. We live on top of a pretty big hill so we don't get other peoples runoff either.

The nutritional value of termites is supposed to be pretty high and they are soft bodied so good for the babies.

[irThumper]

I got the termites from under rotting logs on our property, we never use insecticides or even fertilizers. We didn't cut down all our trees and plant non native species of plants like just about everyone else around here does, not even a lawn. So we don't have harmful runoff. We live on top of a pretty big hill so we don't get other peoples runoff either.

The nutritional value of termites is supposed to be pretty high and they are soft bodied so good for the babies.

Sounds like you're good to go as far as bugs then, as long as there are still some able to be gathered with winter coming on!

[DEW]

Sounds like you're good to go as far as bugs then, as long as there are still some able to be gathered with winter coming on!

I got my order from Josh's frogs and was able to separate the babies into groups of 20, so I finally know how many I actually have. 137! That is counting the remaining 9 tadpoles and the three froglets that should be getting out of the water within the next couple days.

Luckily the termites are easy to find year round I think.
If I don't get crickets soon I'll be in trouble.
All I have is fruit flies. I have 3 active cultures, I am just getting ready to start my first two fruit fly culture kits, I got 20 and Zack said to start two every 2 weeks.
?
With that many frogs I should probably grow crickets to shouldn't I?
Besides, waiting for them in a pain in the A.

By the way, I love the picture of Jelly Bean! too cute.

[irThumper]

Thanks, I love my Jelly Bean! ^_^ Have you tried Armstrong's? Buy Live Crickets and Worms | Armstrong Crickets I've been thinking of culturing crickets myself, but that is just not something I'm going to be able to do in this apartment Right now I'm buying from Pet Smart but I'd like to get mine shipped in from Armstrong's eventually.

[elly]

Whew! (long, slow whistle). I have a single baby White's tree frog (1'' long) and so far I'm averaging about 5 tiny crickets a day. Which doesn't sound like a lot, except if you consider over a week and that a number of crickets will die off. I ordered 50 small dubias before I realized that they're going to last hardly any time at this rate and won't be enough to start a breeding colony. So yeah, I think you're going to need all the bugs you can get.