Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

[deranged chipmunk]

It is an issue due to people thinking they look "oh so cute" when they are overweight. Sadly, oh so cute, is oh not so healthy. I always kept my white's well fed, but I limited their food to keep them in target weight ranges.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[irThumper]

Makes sense to me. One reason I'm not overly keen about bowl feeding or tong feeding, I like to see the frogs go stalk their food and move around to catch it. In a more complicated set up I wouldn't want the crickets to get lost in the set up, though, but I can always make up a special tank just for feeding in the future when they get out of QT.

[FrogsFascinated]

Okay thanks for all the suggestion guys. I don't have a longer tank on hand, but I have a tank that's about the size of his current one (Maybe a little bigger) Would that work for him? Since it has a little more depth to it?

I saw you guys said he needs a bigger aquarium. When we inherited Pogo that's what he had been living in for the other ten years of his life, we were given that aquarium when we got him, We didn't realize that it would was too small.

Lija, I read what you said about Hydrotherapy, and feeding him night crawlers/worms, and what some of the others said about helping him to swim around, would that help at all if I didn't have the water too high? Only maybe 3/4 of an inch to and inch? That's what I did this morning. About the new diet, would it be okay to find normal earthworms out in my backyard, or would there be a risk of exposing him to some sort of disease?

Again guys, thanks so much for helping me out with Pogo it really means a lot, and helps me not too feel so bad for a frog ... and I bet if Pogo could talk he'd be saying thanks too!

[LilyPad]

Oh my Poor baby, I'm glad you've gotten lots of help on here. I hope he makes it.

[Lija]

Emily think of Pogo as 500lb human. how to help him would be very similar as you'd do for a human.
so nothing drastic, everything in moderation, progressively minimazing food intake and increasing moving around.

food has to be nutritious and not fatty. Superworms diet is like burger with fries diet.
How is he eating them? You put in front of him or are you using tongs?

qt rank - moist papertowels changed daily, plant, something to sit on not far from a ground, shallow water fish, cover 3 sides of the tank with anything not see through. Having that will help you see pooping, how often, how does it looks like. Things like that. It's temporarily.

water therapy. get water conditioner, anything from reptile or fish section of the pet store would do. I like prime by seachem the best, cheap and last for a very long time. Use that for any water (tap/spring) you use.
get pedialyte ( non flavoured, over the counter in any farmacy), mix one part of treated water with one part of pedialyte. Keep the frog in a bath or about 20 min every day for a week, water level no higher then frogs chin, supervise and assist if needed. Being obese he might not be able to support himself well in a water.

Mineral/vitamin supplements. Get reptiboost by fluckers, coat with it food you use. The best would be if you could find canadian nightcrawlers or earthworms from any store that sells fish bait. Just make sure it's not dyed.
earthworms from your backyard may contain stuff you don't want to feed to your frog.

Please keep us updated on a progress, bath concentration might change, the game plan may change accordingly to the progress. Really hope he'll make it.

[irThumper]

Pogo's mom- I'm very glad you are willing to help him to have a better life! I'm sure his past owner thought she was doing everything right for him, sadly it wasn't the case. If you have a large rectangular shallow glass baking dish you could use that for his 20 minute Pedialyte soak sessions (never leave him unattended!) and see if he's willing to move around some while in the solution. Don't do anything to stress him though, be gentle and give him time. I really really hope he pulls through and look forward to reading his updates

Oh and I'd put a bigger tank on your Christmas wish list *coff*

These are my White's tree frogs, so we're both White's moms
http://www.frogforum.net/members/irthumper-albums-white-s-tree-frogs-irthumper-picture74416-honey-shirley-sheila-jelly-bean-10-12-14.jpg

[FrogsFascinated]

Hi - this is FrogsFascinated mom. Wanted to clarify a couple things and see if it changed any suggestions. Pogo was very healthy and active up until about a week - ten days ago. He would hop from his mossy area into the water, up on the rocks and back to the dry spot. He had a great appetite. The weather has cooled a bit recently and I originally thought it was the lower temps that caused some of the changes we saw. I agree he could have more room, however he has been in this set up for ten years and has been healthy. His first owner was a science professor and kept a variety of reptiles and amphibians. I trusted after ten years she had figured out a healthy program for Pogo. As my daughter mentioned we adopted him with hand written instructions from his first owner which we have been following. So while it may not have been the best arrangement it was consistent. The two pet supply stores we have consulted with have also recommended the superworms. We have well water not treated city water. When he slowed down a bit and showed less interest in the worms we started to research more online to see if there were any changes we could make for him. We purchased a heat lamp and new UVB bulb and a powdered Ca+ supplement to put the worms in. His paralysis was sudden onset, moving around fine one day and the next day has no control over back legs at all. The legs also have become swollen on the top half and he is bloated, not obese. I'll give you chubby but he has become much larger in the last week. His prolapse was more pronounced this time and the mucosa was very irritated, with the bloating of his legs and body I am concerned with a blockage. Gave him a mini enema after replacing the prolapse to make sure all was where it belonged and he did pass a few harder pieces of stool. His bath and feeding time is in a basin the size of a small litter pan and is used only for pogo, not dishes or other cleaning purposes. All suggestions are appreciated. This pic was before he was so bloated.

[irThumper]

Hi FF's mom I'm going to stick with what's already been suggested here. These guys do a lot of climbing around in the wild as they stalk their prey, and most folks do not give them nearly enough room in their captive habitat (not sure there is such a thing as too large of a tank for a captive White's). He's needed way more space than just to hop from the moss to the water to the rocks and back again. I won't feed superworms to my guys, too much fat & too hard to digest. Wax worms are soft and easy to digest but again very fatty, so have no place in this guy's diet. I'd go with what's been suggested as far as earthworms and crickets gut loaded on healthy vegies and a high calcium cricket chow goes. He needs exercise to keep him regular too, that and the earthworms are more digestible and should be easier to pass.

How did you treat the prolapse and replace it? I just went through this with my young White's, sHEila (turned out she was a he), and it was recommended here that I use a slurry of white sugar and conditioned spring water on the tissue to help it recede. It worked wonderfully and saved a lot of stress and pain for sHEila. I'm still keeping a watchful eye on him. These pics were taken before I found out about using the sugar.