Breeding tank

[Dendro Dave]

I hear you Lynn, and good job trying to keep the bloodlines fresh ...basically I just try to give the best info I can based on my experience and my understanding of others experience that I've gleaned over the years, and give some of the reasons why... then let the person decide. If it's something really bad I try to be polite first usually, 2nd and 3rd... if I can't get through after that the claws may come out.

I don't think a 20vert for 2 darts is insane, but while I won't attack someone for it, I also can't in good conscienc endorse it. And I agree sometimes you just to work with what the person has or can do for now. Freaking out and running them off the forums doesn't help us, them, or the animals, but occasionally someone just has to be told in a less tben friendly way their being cruel to their animals, because we've exhausted every diplomatic option

As experience vs size... I'd say either can result in breeding. You could have a really good vivs maker that puts in all kinds of climbs, ledges, tunnels, and then plants stuff over some of that stuff so that not only didn't they loose any usable space they actually doubled it or more. But then you can have some with not particularly good vivs, but just by virtue of size has enough hides, micro fauna and micro climates that the frogs do fine as long as the tank isn't over stocked.

While sometimes experience and skill will let you get away with some things, you still have to preach what's going to be best for most, even if you don't always do it yourself, but then ultimately I think as the best keepers mature they actually start following their own advice all the time and stop trying to get away with what can work so they don't loose animals that didn't have to be lost. Sometimes frogs are gonna die, but as a keeper sarts to see the majority of his/her animals reaching their max lifespan, they finally get the proof that going above and beyond what works has its rewards.

Also a.lot of people use breeding as evidence that what they are doing works and should be perfectly fine, and it is a valid point, but we've seen mating take place in shipping crates while the frogs crossed the ocean packed in like sardines and likely with a few DOAs. We've seen it occur in horrible overcrowded, or poorly constructed vivariums. So you can be doing things straight up wrong and still get fertile eggs, pull them and raise them or maybe have a few TADS morph out of a water bowl as long as you don't let it dry up.

So IMO while breeding is some evidence that things are OK, you have to look at how long the parents lived after that, how eggs went bad, how many TADS failed to morph, how many frog lets failed to thrive and then ultimately how many of your animal get to their max life span.

I'd say in the end the only real proof that you are for sure doing it right is when you realize you've got a bunch of geriatric frogs over 10 years old who can still breed, high morph out success rate and just aren't loosing animals once the've been in your care for awhile.

[Unnar Karl]

Thanks for all the replies, gave me a lot to think about

[flybyferns]

Your welcome Unnar,
You will always find lots of great people in this hobby all of whom do things a little differently.
There's a huge list of important topics to learn about. You will find huge amount of information on-line. There are valuable resources
on separate care sheets for each species, housing, breeding. When looking to buy ....be ware......ask questions about the frogs you might buy:

-how old they are ( a seller should be able to tell you EXACTLY how old each froglet is !)
-if they are froglets--- have they been fed daily !!!!
-if they are adults--ask about the feeding schedule ( some don't feed daily )
-where did the parents come from
-are they CB ( captive bred) or WC ( wild caught)
-if parents were wild caught --- were they tested/or treated with any medications at acquisition
-is the individual who is selling them actually breed them, if not who did?
-what " grow out" environment were they in
-what supplements were they using
-what feeders
-what size feeders
-what water were they using ( RO, distilled, de-chlorinated) and for what purpose.

You might even check out references? ( This is difficult to do at a show , of course )
When at a show, check out how all the animals look in general ........the vendor is selling.
After a little practice you will be able to see differences very easily.

Those of us who sell froglets need to be just as wary of buyers too . An impulsive buy is scary.
At my very 1st show I refused to sell to 2 separate individuals. I listen very carefully to their conversations.
I feel like giving people a test ,first, before they are allowed to buy

So... what species have you decided to get?

BTW have you ever thought about drilling your enclosures? I have done this to all of my 'permanent housing' enclosures.
It's great and not difficult to do. Are you planning to use a false bottom tank or layered substrate?

Enjoy !

[Unnar Karl]

Your welcome Unnar,
You will always find lots of great people in this hobby all of whom do things a little differently.
There's a huge list of important topics to learn about. You will find huge amount of information on-line. There are valuable resources
on separate care sheets for each species, housing, breeding. When looking to buy ....be ware......ask questions about the frogs you might buy:

-how old they are ( a seller should be able to tell you EXACTLY how old each froglet is !)
-if they are froglets--- have they been fed daily !!!!
-if they are adults--ask about the feeding schedule ( some don't feed daily )
-where did the parents come from
-are they CB ( captive bred) or WC ( wild caught)
-if parents were wild caught --- were they tested/or treated with any medications at acquisition
-is the individual who is selling them actually breed them, if not who did?
-what " grow out" environment were they in
-what supplements were they using
-what feeders
-what size feeders
-what water were they using ( RO, distilled, de-chlorinated) and for what purpose.

You might even check out references? ( This is difficult to do at a show , of course )
When at a show, check out how all the animals look in general ........the vendor is selling.
After a little practice you will be able to see differences very easily.

Those of us who sell froglets need to be just as wary of buyers too . An impulsive buy is scary.
At my very 1st show I refused to sell to 2 separate individuals. I listen very carefully to their conversations.
I feel like giving people a test ,first, before they are allowed to buy

So... what species have you decided to get?

BTW have you ever thought about drilling your enclosures? I have done this to all of my 'permanent housing' enclosures.
It's great and not difficult to do. Are you planning to use a false bottom tank or layered substrate?

Enjoy !

The question list will be very useful when i find someone who sells them, thanks .
I live in Iceland and there is no one who is selling them and i starting to think there's no one who actually owns PDF here so i'm in a bit of a pickle.
I think my only option is to ship them here, i have been looking online for hours for the last couple of months and i still haven't found a single breeder or a store that will send them to me unless i by for total of 2000$ (on top of that comes the CITES application fee), and since i'm not P.Diddy i will have to keep looking a cheaper option :/

I'm leaning more towards false bottom because its easier to maintain