Breeding tank

[Unnar Karl]

Hi

I have been wondering what size of tank suits best for breeding Dendrobates Auratus or Dendrobates Tinctorius ?
I have been looking into these 20 gallon conversion kits http://www.junglebox.net/product/306...egory_Code=VIV
Are they to small or high for a breeding project ? The idea was to have a single pair in each tank.

[flybyferns]

The 20 ( high ) converted will work fine. They are not too high because of the space taken-up by the substrate.
The auratus will breed when housed in a small group as long as there are a few egg deposit site choices ( you might consider a larger enclosure for a small group)
The tics should be housed in pairs....regardless.

[Unnar Karl]

Great, thanks.
How many auratus and how much bigger does the tank need to be for best results?
also, the egg deposits, are tilted film canisters with water suitable for the auratus ?

[flybyferns]

I have a group of 4 auratus ( just now ...able to breed ) in a 18" x 18" x 24" H exo terra enclosure
I use glass petri dishes / covered w coconut halves. They need a lot of cover.
???? Mine are skiddish , very private, and do not like their "stuff" messed with
I believe film canisters would be too small for egg deposits for this species.

[Dendro Dave]

Hi I usually hang out on Dendroboard, but I'm poking my head in here tonight so I'll reply. Since i dont post here much ill add that I'm Dendro Dave on DB too, 5000+ posts 10 years in the dart hobby.

So...

While I think if you stick to pairs you can get away with using a 20h as a vert, it would not be my recommedation. 20verts are better suited for thumbnail frogs and pumilio. The larger darts may use the vertical space but the horizontal space is more important IMO. You guys may have heard the 5gal per frog guidline, but it is more like a minimum standard and assumes a well thought out multi level viv with as much usable surface area as possible. Also the height gained by tipping a 20h over and making it a vert while sacrificing all that floor area that could hold lots more leaf litter and terrain isn't really worth it for larger frogs that will probably appreciate the horizontal space more. Another consideration is you can break up sight lines better for larger frogs going hirizontal. Big frogs arent as unobtrusive as smaller ones and even good group frogs will appreciate some space between them and their friends often times. Its fairly common for frogs to stake an area to retreat to ot generally hang out alone in. Verts give larger frogs less space to do that in.

So unless you need to fit a lot of tanks on a rack i wouldnt do it, because again usually when people do a rack of 20 verts its for pairs or small groups of thumbnails or pumilio. If you need to fit a bunch of 20s on a rack for larger frogs you're probably better off sliding them in sideways and turning one end into your view area, in which case I would turn the other end and what used to be the front and back of the tank into a 2- 3 sided background. Since that would give the tank a lot of depth front to back, you could to a small pond up against that side that is now your front viewing area and let frogs raise a couple TADS in there without every having to pull the eggs.

And yes film cans aren't ideal tad deposit sites for larger frogs, but they will often lay eggs in them and use them as a cozy little hiding spot, so if you wanna build some into a background or hide some amongst plants it won't hurt... might help

I would also add that as I've gained experience, my personal minimum standard is more like 7-10 gal per frog even considering that my vivs have gotten much more suitable. Oh im starting to move towards 3 sided backgrounds not just becuase i like the look, but because that can add 2-5 square feet of suface area for springtails isopods and other microfauna to live and breed in which will mean fatter healthy frogs and less chance of over population and frogs getting iut competed by other frogs.

It all boils down to giving yourself more margin for error. Much if what many would find perfectly acceptable, and absolutely can and does work.... still doesn't contain that extra margin for error that more space and more leaf litter will give you. It will absolutely mean less sick or dead frogs if you do this hobby for a few years... guaranteed

[jarteta97]

Didn't know you were here, Dave. Same profile pic and everything

Listen to this guy ^