Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

  1. #1
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Quincy IL
    Posts
    2,505
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    How many frogs can I fit in "X" tank?

    That is one of the most common questions I see on the forum (outside of help with sick frog questions). We (experienced members and Frog Forum Staff) spend a fair amount of time explaining why you should only house X frogs in X tank, BUT one of the things that I think and personally feel is a gross misunderstanding by new keepers in general is that the "10 Gallon Per Frog Rule" isn't a rule at all! .......<dramatic pause while you all finish gasping and can focus on reading again>....... The 10 Gallon "Standard" or "Minimum" is just that. A standard Minimum amount of space accepted in the hobby per frog. The key in that last sentence is "Minimum", Minimum meaning it would be preferable if you housed the frog in a larger tank, but if that isn't an option than 10 gallons of space should not stress your frog out to much.

    Think "Minimum system requirements" when it comes to computer software. In this case it means the software will install and will run.... will it run great? No it won't and it most likely won't look pretty, BUT it will run. Same thing with frogs. Can a frog live in 10 gallons of space. Absolutely. Will the Frog thrive and be happy... Thrive... Probably not... Happy... Possibly, but it would be happier if it had more room.


    The tank you buy is not the tank they move into

    Lets look at a typical 10g aquarium. Even if you didn't do a custom back ground a typical drainage layer setup will consume 5 - 6" of height your tank had to offer originally. Your 10 gallon tank is 20"x10"x12". Once you subtract the space lost to the drainage layer you really only have a 20"x10"x7". That leaves you with 6 gallons of space. If you do a custom 3d background you will loose roughly 2 to 3" of depth (4.8 gallons left). You quickly run out of space. Even in bigger tanks the space disappears quickly as we start to fill it with the things we need to properly house our friends. Lets look at a typical Exo Tera 18x18x24 (very common hobby tank. This tank is roughly a 33.6g tank. Using the formula I lay out below we can start to figure out how much space is left after we start to add a 3d background and Drainage system. With those 2 items you are left with a 18x15x18 or a 21g tank.

    A handy formula to keep in mind as you are tank shopping and planning out your build is Length times depth times height divided by 231 (for us gallons). This formula will show you the number of gallons of water the space could hold.

    Now planning the number of frogs by the "Minimum space required" alone is only part of the picture. Some frogs are bigger or smaller than others. Some frogs get along great in groups while others do fine in groups until sexual maturity. These things need to be taken into a account as well. For example. I would only house 2 D. Tinc. Azureus in an 18x18x24 Exo terra. They are smaller Dart frogs, but tend to be aggressive once they reach sexual maturity, however I would house 4 - 6 R. Vents in an 18x18x24 because they are great group frogs. In fact the more you have of them in a tank the bolder they become over all.... just a couple examples.

    Another thing to consider outside of frog size and grouping behavior is to consider where this frog will spend the majority of it's time. If you have a 24" tall tank and put mainly terrestrial frogs in it than you really can't count the upper space in the tank, because the frogs won't use it. So your formula for gallons would be something like 18x15x10 (just guessing, but the point is your height would need to be adjusted down to what the frogs might possibly use). This is where looking at tanks that are longer, but shorter comes into play.


    If you get anything from this post I hope it's that the only Standard that truly matters is the one where you consider the needs and happiness of the frogs you keep or plan to keep and base your design and tank size off of their need. Not based off an arbitrary number the hobby has settled on as the acceptable minimum.

    I am not saying housing a frog in a 10g tank temp is wrong or makes you a bad person. Everyone uses smaller tanks for QT, or to raise froglets in, or as a temp home while the main tank is cleaned, setup, or grows in... Whatever the case may be.


    We are here. We will always answer your questions, but it is important for all of us to research what we want. Ask questions if we don't understand, but ultimately use some common sense and do what we can to keep our pets happy, safe, and healthy.

    Paul
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  2. 6 members thank DigitalPunk for this post:


  3. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many
     

  4. #2

    Default 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    Nicely written article Paul. But, what if I want to keep my chinchilla, black rat snake,
    King cobra and rocky, my pet flying squirrel in the tank with my dart frogs and tree frogs, do you have a formula for that?? Huh? Huh??


    Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  5. #3
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Quincy IL
    Posts
    2,505
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    I have a simple formula for that bill.

    1 + 1 does not equal 2 when it comes to mixing species in a tank. It is typically frowned upon to mix species. Big warning bells go off is some peoples brains when they read that others are doing this, but at the same time other people see no harm in it and think the nay sayers are closed minded. I won't get into why one group is right or another group is wrong, but I will say that unless you have years and years of experience keeping frogs and have done an equal amount of researching this should not be attempted. Trust em I know the desire and the drive to try and recreate nature as much as possible in our homes, but we simply lack the square footage that Nature has and often put to species of animals that don't do well together right on top of each other.

    For me the answer is simple. I am a smart enough person to know that 1. I simply don't know enough to attempt this yet. and 2. I don't make enough money to gamble an investment in my frogs and risk losing some or all of them. So I don't do it.


    Much like the "10g Rule" this requires common sense and unfortunately this is not something that can be taught. Mixing will continue to cause much debating in the hobby and the only thing we can do (much like with the 10g rule) is continue to offer advice we know to work and be accurate to try and educate those who chose to interact with us.

    I know your post was not a serious question from you, but was meant to bring another topic we see on the forums often to light. Talking about mixing or not mixing a tank is much like talking about politics. People take it all very personally and things tend to escalate rapidly.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  6. #4

    Default 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    You are correct sir. We might as well lump the two subjects together


    Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  7. #5
    Moderator LilyPad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,445
    Blog Entries
    8
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    This is a really great thread. I like the idea of thinking about whether you want your frog to be "alive" or to "thrive." It's the reason that I'm moving my red eyes from a 20gH to a 24x18x24 by next spring
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



  8. #6
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Quincy IL
    Posts
    2,505
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyPad View Post
    This is a really great thread. I like the idea of thinking about whether you want your frog to be "alive" or to "thrive." It's the reason that I'm moving my red eyes from a 20gH to a 24x18x24 by next spring
    They will love the 24x18x24! I know ours did! Another option Amy (if your up for the work) is to snag a 40B at the $1 per gallon sales and convert it to a vertical. Then they would be in a 18x16x36 Our 5 Reds seem to love the 36" height. Only see them down near the bottom when they are eating. the rest of the time they are up in the top 6" of the tank
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  9. #7
    Moderator LilyPad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,445
    Blog Entries
    8
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    I have considered the converted 40g breeder but there are a couple of issues with it. First, I am not very handy. Second, height space is a consideration at the moment. Thirdly, I want to re-use my 24 inch LED on a new tank. LOL Lame, but I am trying to save money where ever I can with this next build.
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



  10. #8
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Quincy IL
    Posts
    2,505
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    Oh I can relate to the saving money. Don't tell anyone but I have a 24" light on my 40b lol. Didnt want to order an 18" when I already had a 24" lol
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  11. #9
    100+ Post Member jarteta97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Age
    26
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    Sticky this??
    “Life is a journey, not a destination.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

  12. #10
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Quincy IL
    Posts
    2,505
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    I'm all for it, but will let another Mod make that call. Seems self serving to sticky my own post lol. If you appreciate the info my view/info on it shot me some rep
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  13. #11
    100+ Post Member jarteta97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Age
    26
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    Haha, we don't want any hubris hear, right?

    I've given you too much rep, Paul, I need to spread some around before it will let me again. But I will encourage anyone else to do it.
    “Life is a journey, not a destination.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

  14. #12
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Quincy IL
    Posts
    2,505
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    With Christmas comes new frog owners. Going to give this thread a bump to show it on the "what's new" section.

    Remember happy frog happy wife.... or something like that.

    Paul
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  15. #13

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    Ha! I loved this thread! Really informational since we are going to be looking into building some tanks in the future for pacmans! Something to think about when it comes to using the bottom of the tank! Oh, and that last part about frogs and wives, so true Paul! Thats what my husband is getting me for Christmas!

  16. #14
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Nationality
    [Sami]
    Location
    Omnis dolor tempore excepteur quae aliqua Similique adipisicing itaque rerum velit
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: 10 gallon per frog "Rule"?

    Fortune 500 organization just makes due for 40-50 years. In examination, the normal species life expectancy of well evolved creatures is 1 million years and 11 million years Praxis practice test questions some bugs. Given the colossal contrast among corporate and species endurance, a few inquiries ring a bell.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. "Crush," "Saffron," "Citrus," "Pumpkin," and "Scent"
    By Mentat in forum Dart Frogs (Dendrobatidae)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: December 1st, 2014, 05:51 AM
  2. The search for the "perfect" "foam" substrate ...
    By emandkel in forum Pacman Frogs
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: March 3rd, 2013, 09:02 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 20th, 2012, 07:32 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 16th, 2012, 03:14 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 19th, 2009, 10:54 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •