New Grey tree frog tadpole momma (41 babies)

[Betsy]

Hey Crunchy frog, What about the Zoo med Moonlite reptile bulb? 40 watts shouldn't overheat them in a 18x18x24 Exo- Terra vivarium??? Supposedly it give them UVA rays they need and some heat. Also I CAN WATCH them hunt and it doesn't disturb their light cycles of day and night. My house is pretty cool in winter here in frozen tundra of WI !!! 100 year old farmhouse! In CA or FL it wouldn't matter so much. Please do show pixs of your animals,etc. Much thanks again! Frog Mamma . MIST MIST MIST of course for the and the plants and moss.Read up on the Zoo-med reptile safe water conditioner that keeps PH right and helps frogs keep their slime on their skin healthy it says. Makes sense , can't hurt can it?

[Crunchy Frog]

To tell you the truth, I've still got mine in a couple of ten gallon tanks. For light I'm just using a standard full spectrum fluorescent. I'm planning on getting an 18x18x24, but I can't make up my mind whether to get an Exo-Terra or a Zoo Med.

Mine seem to be doing very well under a benign neglect regimen. I'm still dusting their crickets with vitamins and calcium. I'm not worrying about temps, since this is their native climate. I won't be providing a heat source other than ambient room temp, which I don't think will bother them, considering that they can survive being frozen solid. I'm not doing anything special with their water at this point either.

I've never tried posting pics here before, but will give it a try.

[teslas intern]

Hi Betsy. I might be wrong but isn't it the wrong time of year for gray tree frogs to breed? In any event if you are successful at keeping them alive I've actually been looking for about 6 of them for pets. I'm also new here so I can't really comment on how to raise the frogs past the critical stage, but I can recommend for food for the tadpoles, nothing beats really fine algae with some pond microorganisms in it... I raised a lot of toads that way. As for the adults go ahead and order pinhead crickets, and if you want to keep them into adult stage, start a blatta lateralis cockroach colony. They breed like crazy, and are less escape prone than crickets. I'd send you some, because I have zillions of them and not enough pets to eat them, but I know nothing about shipping live creatures in the cold... At any rate best of luck, gray tree frogs are my favorite!

[Betsy]

Algae is fine but they need a protein source because frog tadpoles of all species are omnivorous, not to mention canibolistic opportunists!!! Tetra fish flakes are recommended as well as actual tadpole nuggets. I use both. I've been experimenting with putting my full spectrum light over the aquarium couple hours a day now for a week with my 35 remaining varied sized tads. I've seen the become more active and grow quicker into the final front legs emergence phase of morphing. Then of course they are going into resorbing phase and become static (still) and must be removed to a shallow water dish inside a terrarium where in a week or so they can crawl out at their time. I put sphagnum moss and leaf litter in so the can hide and have stuff to rest on as their lungs develop more fully. Of course fresh water daily. I use a turkey baster to remove old water first so as to not disturb them. If you spook them they will jump out and still they survive hiding in the live mosses ,live plant clippings,and oak leaf litter I have on the floor of my terrarium. Make sure you mist the whole terrarium good 2x a day. The lighting tends to evaporate water not to mention the moss and plants need the mistings too. About a week later they have emerged as they show themselves as frogletts resorbing their tails. I love seeing all their neat transformations. That way the new front leg morpher dudes are enjoying the nice lighting aspects, proper warmth and ready to acclimate right of the bat. Working out fantastic for my brood of morphing babies. Their not spoiled ? Are they ??? HECK NO Love this beatin a dead horse!! I have two horse so this is hilarious to me!

[Betsy]

Hi Frog Momma here, I know now for a fact that these baby frogs need Repti lite 5.0 for their health. The frogs started to finally eat as soon as I set up my Exo Terra terrarium w/lites. At nite I use a 60 watt Moonlite bulb for some heat and additional UVA rays to stimulate appetites. Even the compact Repti bulb puts off some heat. They are obviously not big enough to breed as someone asked me!!! I've lined the tank w/ 2" of substrate and then found some wild Mosses to top this with. Hell I would live in there if I could. A small pond for the froglettes allows them to crawl out when ready. They slowly crawl up the GREAT FROG WALL to quietly sit with the bigger mature frogs ( 9 in all w/ NO fatalities) When their tail nub is resorbed they state to feed after a day or so. THey all have migrated up to the warmth of the lights during the day. Also use a second Blue daytime Zoo Med 60 watt to give them their daytime heat source. They LOVE it. This is Wiscinsin not florida. 67 degrees at nite is too cold for them to hunt efficiently at nite I observed this first hand, before I got educated on amphibian lighting needs.. Now I am an amature research herpetologist!! What an amazing hobbie this has become. My boyfriend Just says "OH YOU AND THOSE FROGS" He just doesn't get how cool they are to observe as they grow in all their stages. It's an honor to be their Frog Momma!!!!! LOVE MY LITTLE FROG DUDES!!!! Thankyou for all the forum posts to help me get them established and Happy. Lastly a question , Can I order Pinhead crickets anywhere??? They are hard to find. Plus someone offered me baby roaches on this forum. but I can't have roaches dare get out. That would freak me out. Crickets are fine not creepy roaches!!!! Any advice . These little guys just stated eating 6 days ago so are they capable of eating bugs bigger than the fruit flies??

[LilyPad]

They are capable of eating foods no longer than the space between their eyes. I would recommend reading the care sheet - Frog Forum - Gray Tree Frog Care and Breeding

Just curious what you're planning to do with all the babies? Wisconsin doesn't allow you to own more than 5 of them. It's getting cold to release them, but I have still heard them calling on warmer days, so you may want to pick one of those days to let as many go as possible. Today would be a perfect day, depending where you are in WI, to let those that have morphed go. The sooner you let them go, the faster they'll learn to hunt on their own and/or find a place to sleep for winter.

Whatever you keep, you'll need about 10 gallons space per frog in order for them to thrive.

67 degrees should be warm enough to stimulate eating with greys (after all, they would practically starve to death in wisconsin otherwise) but warmer temps will help them digest more quickly. UV light is not necessary for their health.

You could order pinheads...but getting cold out, most will not survive shipping.

[Betsy]

Hello Amy, I'm sorry but I've read and researched for 4 weeks straight about these Grey juveniles. They ABSOLUTELY need UVB light rays to make vitamin D-3 in order to absorb calcium or they will die of bone loss. Also you are wrong about UVA light rays in which it is proven scientifically to stimulate their appetites and their overall well being. The moonlite bulb is great because research shows it gives off a small amount of heat and UVA rays too. You do not need an intense heat bulb, however they do love it, because they move and gravitate to the lights when I turn them on in the AM and PM night bulb. Plus it is cool to be able to observe them hunt at night with the Moonlite bulb. I've observed without the lights, that the 67 degree temp is too cool at night and they do not move as much and tend to hunker down more to conserve energy. I'm simulating a temperate climate for them all winter long into springtime. When I'm sure there sill be no more freak frosts temps they will be set free by my backyard pond setup just like the zoo Dr. said he did with his over wintered brood of baby Greys. I am mostly going on a post on this forum recently done by a retired zoo herpetologist, whom has raised Greys indoors and out in backyard ponds. I'm sorry I can't remember his name right now. Look up his post and you will read that you CANNOT release newly morphed or the fully morphed baby frogs because the do not have enough fat stores to make it through winter hibernation , esp in the brutal WI winters we have !!! Hope this gets you to look up more in-depth research on this amazing species of arboreal north american frog. Believe me I've done intense research and still am!!! I have TWO Biological Science degrees and trust me I know how to study and research things in-depth. I love these frogs and am thrilled at how well they are thriving!!! Thanks for you input! Frog Momma out….

[UncleChester]

Hello Amy, I'm sorry but I've read and researched for 4 weeks straight about these Grey juveniles. They ABSOLUTELY need UVB light rays to make vitamin D-3 in order to absorb calcium or they will die of bone loss. Also you are wrong about UVA light rays in which it is proven scientifically to stimulate their appetites and their overall well being...

Could you please provide your sources for these statements? I'd be interesting in reading the studies you've found. Thanks!

[LilyPad]

Wow, it's great to know that 4 weeks of research and 2 biological science degrees negate 4+ years of experience and research. I'm not saying that 4 years is tons of experience, but I have definitely learned a lot in this ever evolving hobby when it comes to my greys. Obviously you're going to do whatever you want and ignore any questions and advice that I put out there for you in order to help you, so I guess I'll step away and let you figure it out yourself.

[deranged chipmunk]

Hello Amy, I'm sorry but I've read and researched for 4 weeks straight about these Grey juveniles. They ABSOLUTELY need UVB light rays to make vitamin D-3 in order to absorb calcium or they will die of bone loss. Also you are wrong about UVA light rays in which it is proven scientifically to stimulate their appetites and their overall well being. The moonlite bulb is great because research shows it gives off a small amount of heat and UVA rays too. You do not need an intense heat bulb, however they do love it, because they move and gravitate to the lights when I turn them on in the AM and PM night bulb. Plus it is cool to be able to observe them hunt at night with the Moonlite bulb. I've observed without the lights, that the 67 degree temp is too cool at night and they do not move as much and tend to hunker down more to conserve energy. I'm simulating a temperate climate for them all winter long into springtime. When I'm sure there sill be no more freak frosts temps they will be set free by my backyard pond setup just like the zoo Dr. said he did with his over wintered brood of baby Greys. I am mostly going on a post on this forum recently done by a retired zoo herpetologist, whom has raised Greys indoors and out in backyard ponds. I'm sorry I can't remember his name right now. Look up his post and you will read that you CANNOT release newly morphed or the fully morphed baby frogs because the do not have enough fat stores to make it through winter hibernation , esp in the brutal WI winters we have !!! Hope this gets you to look up more in-depth research on this amazing species of arboreal north american frog. Believe me I've done intense research and still am!!! I have TWO Biological Science degrees and trust me I know how to study and research things in-depth. I love these frogs and am thrilled at how well they are thriving!!! Thanks for you input! Frog Momma out….

is this the post you are referring to?
http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...ng-winter.html

[Betsy]

Yes thats the post. Thanks

[teslas intern]

They are obviously not big enough to breed as someone asked me!!!

Actually what I meant to ask is how did their parents end up breeding this late in the year. Obviously the little guys can't breed yet!!! This gives me hope that I might be able to find some grey's before winter hits...

Lastly a question , Can I order Pinhead crickets anywhere??? They are hard to find. Plus someone offered me baby roaches on this forum. but I can't have roaches dare get out. That would freak me out. Crickets are fine not creepy roaches!!!! Any advice .

In reality the correct answer is you want roaches, fruit flies, and crickets, and moths, and anything else you can breed to give the most balanced diet possible. With that said If you are going to focus on one, I still vote for blatta lateralis roaches. Yes I know, ooh, creepy... I'm a bug person so it is easy for me to overlook this factor (in fact, I'm guilty of thinking they are kind of cute) but let me pitch them to you... If you have your own colony (which is super easy) you have roaches of all sizes, so you can feed babies and adults alike. They don't give off an odor like crickets do, and this species of roach (and this is important) is non-invasive and WON'T SURVIVE IN A NORTH AMERICAN HOUSE IF IT ESCAPES. Crickets on the other hand, get everywhere... Lateralis are tropical and need high humidity to survive, also they can't climb smooth surfaces or jump really, so they are easy to contain. Take the time to do some research on these amazing feeders, they are almost as much fun to cultivate as the frogs are! At any rate, if you are interested, I got my lateralis at Jamie's tarantulas, their customer service is top notch https://www.jamiestarantulas.com/Pro...oductCode=2010. You'll need a lot to feed that many frogs... If I haven't convinced you, and you want crickets, Go to Josh's frogs, I haven't dealt with them personally, but I've heard good things. Josh's Frogs Pinhead Crickets (500 Count) | Josh's Frogs. Good luck, and again, if you are willing to ship them I'd love to take a few of those little guys off your hands!

[Crunchy Frog]

So glad to hear that your froggies are doing well. I hope you'll post some pictures.

I ordered my pinhead crickets from Ghann's Cricket Farm Inc. They have them in all size increments, and I was literally ordering them by the thousands while I was raising my frogs. The next size up from the smallest seemed to be ideal for the youngest froglets. They also guarantee live arrival, as long as the temp doesn't go below 25º.

Those roaches sound kind of intriguing though. I may have to look into them.

[Betsy]

Hi there ! Frog Momma here This is one research website with Dr. Frank retired Herpatologist Reptiles and Amphibians in Outdoor Pens or Ponds: Preparing for Winter | That Reptile Blog I happen to think Dr.Frank certainly know more than the majority of people here on this frog forum. Why don't you nonbelievers in GREY TREEFROGS and their needs for proper lighting have a go at arguing with Dr. Frank. I would love to hear what he has to say back at you!!! Just a friendly Debate ….. Would be awesome!!! I dare you to see what he thinks…. Just a friendly dare mind you… I 'm so exited to see what he has to say!!! I'll keep looking up more credible resources such as a Real Herpatologist…. Thanks , Hope this helps Grey Tree Frog Lovers like myself. Enjoy the knowledge , Frog Momma out!!!

[Mentat]

Hi there ! Frog Momma here This is one research website with Dr. Frank retired Herpatologist Reptiles and Amphibians in Outdoor Pens or Ponds: Preparing for Winter | That Reptile Blog I happen to think Dr.Frank certainly know more than the majority of people here on this frog forum. Why don't you nonbelievers in GREY TREEFROGS and their needs for proper lighting have a go at arguing with Dr. Frank. I would love to hear what he has to say back at you!!! Just a friendly Debate ….. Would be awesome!!! I dare you to see what he thinks…. Just a friendly dare mind you… I 'm so exited to see what he has to say!!! I'll keep looking up more credible resources such as a Real Herpatologist…. Thanks , Hope this helps Grey Tree Frog Lovers like myself. Enjoy the knowledge , Frog Momma out!!!

I'm sorry; but the article you are quoting does not support your statements. Follow the link and read it again; there is nothing in there about UVB replacing supplements. Also; why are you calling Frank a Dr. ?

[Crunchy Frog]

Thanks for posting that link. An interesting read and an interesting blog.

Here is the only part I found that discusses Grey Treefrogs.

Temperate zone frogs and toads, including Fire-bellied Toads, American Bullfrogs, Gray Treefrogs and Leopard Frogs remain active and feeding at normal to low (i.e. 55 F) room temperatures. The change from summer highs seems to do them good, and in some cases (i.e. Fire-bellied Toads), may also stimulate breeding behavior.

This supports my own intuitive sense that keeping them at ambient room temp with no extra heating is probably healthiest for them. This discussion also influenced me to look up the average high and low temps for the area where we live. Apparently the average nightly low here during the warmest month of the year is 61F.

I have been using full spectrum lighting for my tads/froglets/young frogs. When the tads were in the pond, I noticed that they liked to hang out near the surface in the sunlight, so I figured it was probably good for them. The lighting was set up in a pretty crazy, ad hoc fashion during the time when I had 5 tanks full of froglets. I even had a full spectrum light used for treating wintertime depression thrown in the mix.

I don't think that there's necessarily any single absolute right way of doing these guys. I think we all go through a certain amount of trial and error, and settle on things that seem to work well for our animals, while also drawing on the experiences of others who have kept the same animals. It sounds like even Dr. Frank has operated in that way over the course of his career.

I will be writing up my own intro post, with the whole sordid saga of my tadpoles, and how I ended up with them, and raising them indoors, soon. I've been enjoying reading your own account. I do think that all of us here are believers in Grey Treefrogs and their needs. We wouldn't be here otherwise. We all just have a variety of different approaches.

[Lady]

I am glad you decided to try and save the tadpoles. They really are important. You seem to be learning, you can culture more flies at home to save money and avoid trips. You just have to have the right media or food, wood wool (aka Excelsior) and the right containers. you can order this all from Josh's Frogs though the wood wool is cheaper at the craft store. I have to culture my own because I am allergic to the stuff in commercial media and I save money. I make cultures every 2 weeks from the boom of the last culture I made. You don't want to culture less often or you will have too few or too old flies and the culture will fail. Next time I make my media I will make a video of it to post on YouTube and share in a thread I started. I don't use potatoes in mine so it is not already on YouTube done by someone else.

Oh. one important thing. You will want to test one frog in each grow out tank for Chytrid fungus and Ranavirus before you release any into the wild. These diseases are killing wild populations and if your frogs have either they will have to be treated before being released. These disease can be food born so anything you feed them might give it to the whole tank.

[flybyferns]

I can not be positive ....but, I don't believe either grey tree frog species is associated w/ or have been related to diseases such as those caused by chytrid fungi or ranaviruses.

It is highly unlikely you will have to test any of them. The more quickly you release them the better. Keep in mind ...each adult frog will need 10 gallons or more of space to house properly!

The best way to get accurate information regarding this is to call you local conservation. ( link below )
They will also be able to assist you in the proper way and area in which to release them.

I have followed, very closely, the conservation and protection of the Gray Tree Frog - Hyla versicolor in the Catskills (NY). I have personally had NY state conservation on our property in the Catskills where they breed is a bog area there. This species, in fact any species, should not be removed from it's natural habitat! In my life, I have held 1000s of froglets ( in July - Aug) I have witnessed 1000s of tads in late spring. They are so plentiful I have to be careful where I walk on the bank of the boggy area when are making their way from the water. Please be aware of what an important species they are to the US. They are our little chameleons !

Nothing has taught me more about how impossible it is to replicate a captive bred frog's diet then knowing intimately the choices of feeders these little jewels have to choose from in their natural habitat.

Home - Natural Resources Foundation of Wisconsin

[Betsy]

What is a tesla intern??? Thankyou for the roaches info. So much to know!!! QUESTION OH BUG MASTER!!! How do I separate out the babys from the adults w/out the roaches getting all over my kitchen??? That's where my frog setup has to be in my farmhouse so I can constantly take care of them easiest. So Scott have any of your verified species (Blatta Lateralis) ever gotten out!! Do they die in the house or do the set up shop under the fridge and breed??? If you positive they cannot survive in a north american home I guess I'll check them out. Got any links for me to learn how to breed ,feed,and house them. Sure could use your expertise oh Bug Master…. Thanks Frog Mamma. PS. Won't the adults, too big to eat size roaches eat my frog!!! They are as big as my little fingernail you know!! How do I get them out of my terrarium to put them back in their bug colony??? Maybe you could call me?? I'm better at communicating on the old fashioned telephone… Get results quicker!!! Don't worry I'm not a stalker!!! (###-###-####) I get lost on a forum like this as far as navigating a website goes..I'm horrible at tech nerd stuff. But I'm trying, Hey I got this out to you at least…. Tesla was a famous scientist…???