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Thread: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

  1. #1
    Kmoonleaf
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    Default Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    Hi guys. I made this same thread a few weeks ago, I followed everyone's suggestions, and I thought my frog was going to be okay, but he's really not okay It's too dark to get pictures right now, but he scrapes on his nose have gone from bad to worse, there's a huge gash on his nose and a smaller sore on his head. It's 2am right now, I have to be up for school at 6, but he keeps waking me up with his distress noises. He just won't stop shoving himself up against the screen top. I've been looking into vets, but nobody in our family has ever had a pet before so we don't know any around town. I am just so unbelievably frustrated about this, nothing I do seems to work, I just want some peace of mind.

    1----what 'kind' of frog is it White's tree frog
    2----please include a photo of the frog Name:  tumblr_ncuzft3NUp1qknsc9o1_500.jpg
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    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure Name:  tumblr_ncuzhmyQXB1qknsc9o1_500.jpg
Views: 553
Size:  60.0 KB (taken at night, sorry)

    4----size of enclosure18" x 18" x 24"
    5----# on inhabitants - No other inhabitants
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate no
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined no tank mate
    8----what is the typical humidity level 60%
    9----what temperature is maintained 80 during the day, 75 at night
    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure 1 60 watt red heat lamp above the tank
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically) 1 UVB light (on during the day, off at night) Unsure of wattage/brand/uvb levels
    12---describe enclosure maintenance water bowls cleaned daily, misted 2-3 times a day, poop cleaned on sight, everything cleaned once a month
    13---what kind of water is used
    -----for misting dechlorinated reverse-osmosis water
    -----for the frog's soaking dish dechlorinated tap water
    -----is de-chlorinator used / what brand yes, repti-safe
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific eco-earth coconut fiber
    15---enclosure set up:
    -----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned I cleaned the tank today - replaced the substrate, scrubbed the walls with water, rinsed and scrubbed all the things in the tank with hot water
    -----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric 1 bunch of fabric leaves, 1 fabric-leaved vine, 1 fabric-leaved floor plant, 1 wall branch with fabric leaves
    -----describe wood, bark , and background materials 1 tall, smooth driftwood, foam background.
    16---when is the last time the frog ate yesterday, 3 crickets
    17---have you found poop lately yes, 2 days ago
    18---how often is the frog fed every other day
    19---what size feeder is given large crickets
    20---what other feeders are used as treats none
    21---what is the frog's main food source crickets
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed bowl fed
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often none
    24---calcium - what brand and how often fluker's calcium dust on the crickets
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time no - unless it was before I owned him
    26---approximate age of the frog mature - unknown exact age
    27---how long have you owned the frog 4 months
    28---who cared for the frog before you pet store
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred captive bred
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves) once every few days, no gloves, just clean and misted hands
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area low traffic, high noise sometimes though (there's a tv in the next room)
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no) no quarantine
    -----for how long
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication: no
    -----for what
    -----name of medication
    -----for how long
    -----what dose
    -----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

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  3. #2
    100+ Post Member Frogman1031's Avatar
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    Default Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    Sorry that your frog is still not feeling well

    Besides the lack of multivitamin dusting once a week, the husbandry is spot on. I'm not sure what's wrong. Maybe the temperature is too high still? Maybe you should get a smaller heat bulb?

    Litoria
    caerulea 1.1.0 (White's Tree Frog)
    Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis ​0.1.0 (Anerythristic Honduran Milk Snake) Tliltocatl albopilosus 0.0.2 (Curly Hair Tarantula)
    Aphonopelma hentzi 0.0.1 (Texas Brown Tarantula)
    Avicularia avicularia 0.0.2 (Pinktoe Tarantula)
    Brachypelma smithi ex. annitha 0.0.1 (Mexican Giant Red Knee Tarantula) Monocentropus balfouri 0.0.2 (Socotra Island Blue Baboon Tarantula)
    Harpactira pulchripes
    0.0.1 (Golden Blue Leg Baboon Tarantula)

  4. #3
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    Hi,
    Could you possibly provide us with some additional photos of the inside of the enclosure and of the enclosure lid.
    A few of the inside? of how the set-up typically looks. Please take them in the daylight

    This activity of scraping there noses , always wanting OUT is just that........something is ,just, not right.

    I'm thinking ----- Humidity ?
    How often are you misting ?
    What hygrometer do you use?
    Most of them are just about useless !

    Temp ? What device do you have?

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  5. #4
    Kmoonleaf
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    I have a 40 watt heat bulb i'm not using, i'll try switching to that.
    I'll take some pictures when I get home from school today, as well as some recent pictures of his nose rub.
    I mist 2-5 times a day, depending on how much i'm home.
    I have an analog hygrometer and thermometer - they might not be totally accurate, but according to them, the humidity is usually around 60%, and the temperature 80-75 degrees.

    For a long time I thought the problem was that he doesn't have a lot of hiding spots - yesterday when I took him out of the tank, he hopped off of my hand and climbed inbetween a box and hat I had sitting on my desk, and just tucked himself right in and fell asleep. He has plenty of plants though, i have a flowerpot in the back of the tank he could hide in, and there's a mushroom log that's not attached to the wall, i just have it leaning against the glass so he could hide underneath it if he wanted to. He doesn't seem to be interested in any of those hiding spots though, he's always either sleeping, or actively trying to escape.

  6. #5
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    I'm a new WTF owner myself, my main experience is with Pacific Chrous/Tree Frogs, but I'd try a bigger tank with live plants, and maybe get him a friend... these guys definitely seem to enjoy company. Can't put a friend in with him right now, of course, but maybe you could put your guy in the bigger tank and quarantine the new frog in the smaller tank...? With everything else seeming right it just sounds to me like he's frustrated...

    Also, I think WTF's don't need "quite" the amount of heat people tend to give them... are the lights on 12 hrs off 12 hrs? Maybe he's getting too much or too little "daylight" or "night time".

    I hope he gets better!
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


  7. #6
    Kmoonleaf
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    I'm afraid I can't get a new tank, i saved for months and spent all my free money just to get the tank I have D:
    I have been considering getting him a friend, but i was going to wait until this issue dies down to make sure he's comfortable before I try to make a big change to his environment. And, my tank is 18x18x24 (32 gallons) so I wasn't sure if that's big enough for two frogs, I know 20 gallons is the minimum for just one frog. The other tank I have is only 12 gallons, so I don't know if a new frog would like staying in there for the whole 30 day quarantine period.
    Yes, the uvb light is on 12hrs and off 12hrs, and the heat lamp is on 24/7.

    If I were to get a few live plants, what plant types are good? which types should I avoid? what extra care would a live plant require? How can I make sure a live plant won't introduce foreign organisms/parasites to the tank?

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    There's good stuff in the Terrarium section on the forum. As far as plant types go, many tropical houseplants that can tolerate damp work. Lucky bamboo, pothos, snake plant are some examples. I have mine in water right now and I plan to give them a quick dip in a bleach water solution. (inexpensive is good, in case they die of that or from being sat on by frogs.)

  9. #8
    Kmoonleaf
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    here - some pictures of the tank Name:  tumblr_ncvycoX6E11qknsc9o1_500.jpg
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    And a few more of the frog
    Name:  tumblr_ncvydny8bO1qknsc9o1_500.jpg
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Size:  91.8 KB Name:  tumblr_ncvydzyQlf1qknsc9o1_500.jpg
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Size:  86.5 KB

  10. #9
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    I'd give him a bigger water dish, place a flat rock or something else in the bottom (I use a tera cotta pot saucer upside down) and get him a "Pineapple" variety Dracaena. One of our Pacific tree frogs, and now our new Whites Tree Frog's, love snuggling down between the leaves to nap. I think the live plants help make them feel more secure & less frustrated and are kinder to their skin.

    Name:  DSC00390--2.jpg
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Size:  153.8 KBName:  DSC00481.JPG
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Size:  172.1 KB<< Pacific tree frog in Dracaena Name:  DSC00183.JPG
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Size:  154.8 KB<< Pacific tree frog in African violet
    Name:  DSC00441.JPG
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Size:  146.1 KB<< Outdoor Pacific tree frog in a Hosta

    (Will have to get pics of the new Whites Tree Frog girls in their dracaena)
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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  12. #10
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    Hmm I have not kept White tree frogs, but I do have some Red Eyes and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night so let me toss a few ideas at you and see what you think.


    Heating a tank with a heat bulb also has the added benefit of drying the air out in the tank super fast. I would venture a guess and say the hydrometer is way off on it's readings. With a Heat bulb on 24/7 there is almost no way for it to be on average 60% without the substrate being completely soaked with water and swamped out. I am going to link an item below to use in place of the heat bulb.


    Ceramic Heat Emitter - If your current dome has a porcelain socket than this will work in your existing dome. He it is a plastic or metal socket you will want to replace the dome. These babies are bit more money than bulbs but last a heck of a lot longer. They will heat the tank 24/7 and produce no light. You will want to either use a thermostat to help control the output temp of find a dome with a dimmer switch on it to help regulate the heat. These things also do not dry out the air so all that precious humidity will stick around for a while.

    That is the one thing that jumps out at me right away with your setup is the heating lamp. I tried those, it was a nightmare, and so I switched to the CHE and love them!
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  13. #11
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    How hot do those get though...? I'm second guessing myself on my own frogs' temps at night too, though I still think 73 at night is not too low I just don't know if they're used to it yet, and I don't really want it getting lower than 72 at the most. I did read somewhere on here that someones WTFs got to 68 or 69 at night and seemed to be perfectly fine, but I don't even let my African violets get that low at night and the frogs will wind up being in the same room as them.
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


  14. #12
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    It depends on the wattage you get. they 100w one gets up near the 80's the closer to it you are. It is a radiant heat so the closer to the device the warmer it feels and then down towards the vivarium floor it will feel a bit cooler The box shows the estimated distances and the heat drop off.
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    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
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    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

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  16. #13

    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmoonleaf View Post
    HHe just won't stop shoving himself up against the screen top.
    If you can, convince him this isn't a way out. Options:

    - Cut a strip of black cardboard about 2" wide and as long as your tank. Put it on the outside of the tank along the edge he's scraping against. They can see through screen and try to get through it. This makes it look solid to the frog and no longer an escape route.

    - Ram in something soft on the inside of the tank where he's rubbing. A bunch of balled up moss tied through the screen with a bit of twine for example, or attach it more permanently all along the edges at the top if necessary.


    The first option worked for me, one of my Hyla versicolor would rub against the screen whenever there was a thunderstorm, black cardboard on the outside where it rubbed stopped it completely. This will cut the ventilation a little, so only cardboard up parts of the screen where it can press against (there's no reason to cover the whole top).

    Also, calibrate your hygrometer if you haven't already Frog Forum - Calibration of Digital Hygrometers for Vivaria Use

  17. #14
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    I considered putting silicone or hot glue around any sharp edges to avoid potential rubbing issues. I actually put a little hot glue on before remembering that I might want to use a heat lamp in the future. Sigh.
    I think I'll try the black cardboard idea instead.

  18. #15
    simonlaprise
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    i could suggest you put some tape on the inside part of the screen so its gonna slide instead,

  19. #16
    Kmoonleaf
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    I did used to have tape all around the inside edge of the screen, i took it down though because it kept falling off and it didn't seem to be helping the situation. I could always try putting it back up. He's always trying to shove himself out of two specific corners, and I already have a towel covering the tops of both of those corners.

  20. #17
    Kmoonleaf
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    also - today I tried just turning off the heat lamp for a few hours, just to see what he would do. (since we keep our house at ~75 degrees this time of year anyway) I don't think the problem is that the tank is too hot, because there was no change in behavior.

  21. #18
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whites tree frog STILL hurting himself

    I'd try a live plant... look for a dracaena that looks like the top of a pineapple. They usually have them at Walmart or Lowes but you'll need to flush or change the soil and wipe down the leaves just in case of ferts and pesticides.
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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