OMG... I've Gone And DONE It...!

[irThumper]

Well, I gave in! I saw some baby WTF's at Petco tonight as I was picking up crickets to feed my outdoor residential PTF friends, and I thought "I'll just look.... no harm in just looking... right?" After all, I'm not done setting up, I'm waiting to get everything JUST right to get some in the spring... *SNORT* Riiiight! Well I see the babies, they'd just come in this week, and a pale one caught my eye-- was that a...Honey?? I asked someone if I could get a hands on look so they obliged and let me handle the frogs (amazingly) maybe it was the fact I'd been buying crickets from them since July and was wearing a cute little froggy pin on my ball cap, who knows. Well I determined that the pale frisky one must surely be a Honey, she wasn't bright green, blue green dark green or brown when out of the corner of my eye I saw a greenish brown froggy with-- snowflakes! I had to think, don't the plain colored ones not get white spots here and there until they are much older, not babies? But these were sprinkled over their backs. I fished around and found a nice plump bluish green one with bigger white spots along the sides and a nice sprinkle of white flecks on her(?) back, and then I saw what made up my mind to get them out of there-- and maybe this was stupid, heck getting them before I'm ready is stupid! But I saw one little frog take a HUGE kerap on another frogs head... and then she prolapsed! D: I'd seen one shedding when I'd just looked in earlier, and all that substrate was going right in her mouth, wonder if it was the same frog. So I told them about it and showed them the frog with the 'roid and told them they better take her and out her in a hospital tank with NO substrate but damp paper towels, so I hope they did (they took her out while I was there), and I scooped up the pale baby and the snowflakey baby and brought them home. I'm glad I made the decision though, because one clerk told me they'd just lost 6 WTFs that came in a new shipment because some moron accidentally put them in a reptile enclosure and they baked to death! I just hope these two aren't full of substrate. The snowflakey one pooped in her shipping container so she's not clogged anyway, more than likely... I hope!

I'm now sitting here with them in a plastic canister jar with a few air holes at either end. They tried to give them to me in a carboard box (really???) and I insisted they give me whatever plastic shipping containers they had to take them each home in. The containers were so shallow that I wonder if they'd had baby snakes instead of frogs in them... both plastic containers have wet paper towels they put in from the store. They were in an 80 degree tank with 67% humidity at the store, it was 75 in here with 57% humidity (still is) when I got home, so I've had my desk lap on over them (they're covered with a very thin white flour sack towel) and the temp went up to 81 (I have a heat/humidity gauge sitting on the canister) so I moved the lamp away a bit and the temp is now 79. The humidity here (near my comp) is 52% and dropping, but they are much more humid in the canister I'd think since I added more water (double filtered spring water) to the shipping containers. The Honey girl who was so frisky and all over the place at the store (clear out onto the floor actually! but she's ok) is now calm and up in one corner of the canister while the blue green snowflake one who was so calm and in the corner of the cage at the store in all over the place. I'm worried about her bumping her nose, which is why I put the towel over them to try and calm her. They were just dumping the crickets in their cage, and I know babies need to be fed every day, but I don't want to just have crickets loose in with them. Would feeding them 2-3 per frog in a dish once a day be fine, or should I break it up into two feedings a day? Also, I have a 5 gal critter keeper, would that be fine to keep them in until their main environment is fixed up? I don't want to worry about anyone getting hurt. Right now I'm soaking their water dish, and a couple of small ceramic/terracotta cups for them to sit on, in filtered spring water (which I'll change out a couple times) after washing them in a bit of Dawn dish liquid (technically I know that's not supposed to be done, but the pots were questionable) and then rinsing them in a combo of hot tap water and hydrogen peroxide (we don't have any bleach)... I hope this will be ok.

Now, they've been sitting here at 79 degrees for the last hour almost, and the temp was 80 before that (it's 10:45 here now, we got home around 8:17. When the lights go off in my plant room (which is usually 77 in the day and goes down to 72-75 at night, depending on how warm/cold the day has been) My long 15 gal tank I kept the PTF's in has the light off and it is now at 73 (it's closest to my door) I've left the T5 grow light on over my 20 hi African violet tanks and inside that is still 77.9, I also left the T8 grow light on over my AVs that are not in a tank but sitting on a table, they are at 77. Should I put the 5 gal critter keeper these guys will temporarily be in near the warmest spot and just leave those plant lights on for tonight? Or will they be ok if the temps drop down to 73-75 at night with the lights off? I never had to worry about this with my native frog friends...

(To be continued, going to go check temp in middle of room again)

[LisaGarcia]

Welcome to the Petco "Surprise" group! If there isn't' one, we should start one! That is how I got Hopper! LOL Look up the WTF care sheet. I think your temps and humidity are fine. Personally 73 would be the lowest I would go. Humidity should be 50-70. Do you have vinegar? I am not sure about the peroxide but I know white vinegar will work instead of bleach. You have to make sure you can't smell it at all! Let is completely dry before letting the frogs touch it. I would LOVE to find a honey blue eye! Oh and we need pics

[Frogman1031]

We all need to stop going to petco..... Too many of us (including myself) have fallen for their temptations

[irThumper]

Haha! I know! Funny thing is, now that I've had them a few hours, I'm not sure the Honey IS a Honey...?? She is that color most of the time, and so pale when the light is off that in the light of the night light she almost appears white! But she started to change just the palest almost sea foam green in areas so that she was pale green and honey color... is this possible on a true Honey? (Neither are blue eyeds by the way, ah well, lol) :P Oh and she also has just a faint smattering of snowflakes on her flanks, but the other frog has larger white blotches on her upper sides and more snowflakes across her lower back.

Here are a few screen captures taken throughout the night from 8:17 p.m. til about an hour ago when I got them into their newly cleaned quarantine critter keeper.

[Frogman1031]

They are very cute! Idk if they are different morphs but they look adorable anyway!

[flybyferns]

Congratulations --- they are very sweet !


A few weeks ago I saw several Whites in a 5 gallon tank with dirty /wet sphagnum moss, and a disgusting dirty water dish. When I pointed out to the store manager ( I will not mention the chain) that it can cause intestinal blockage; I was told that "they researched it...and this is how we do it. They are fine.They have been in there for months".

When I go into places where the frogs are poorly cared for....I don't even look anymore. It's just too sad. vs I purchased my typical supply of small crickets this past Tuesday at my favorite 'pet shop'. I visited the herp section and found 2 cute Whites in a ten gallon tank with clean /damp cocoa fiber and a clean water dish. They both had a cute "Whites smile" on their sweets faces.

The cleaning and disinfection solution used is a 1:10 bleach solution ( one part bleach : and 10 parts water)
Rinse REALLY well with de-clorinated water solution a few times. If is is a very used enclosure you need some elbow grease----a razor blade .
Repeat the bleach cleaning.

*************

Hydrogen peroxide comes in a dark-brown bottle because light will reduce it's potency. Hydrogen peroxide is created from oxygen and hydrogen molecules. It is the oxygen component that can kill the germs through a process called oxidation. The bacteria actually decomposes during the oxidation. I suppose the same may happen when it comes in contact with other bugs ( ie viral )? The concern is rinsing and its effectiveness against all germs ( bacteria and viral ) . The bleach and water solution can be neutralized easily enough with de-chlorinator. I don't how to recommend completely removing all the remnants of the peroxide? If there is any left over that gets on to the frogs ---it could burn their skin?

As for vinegar killing germs.? This science/ research is a little confusing and likely not as ,highly, effective disinfectant as bleach? Bleach is proven to kill salmonella and vinegar has proven NOT to. Vinegar does not kill as many bacteria as bleach -- most notably for humans ----staphylococcus.

I would be reluctant to use vinegar or peroxide in an attempt to disinfect against the 2 most common bugs to 'potentially' be in the frog enclosure.
( Chytrid Fungus (B. dendrobatidis) , Ranavirus, and a big list of other parasites) Apparently bleach DOES kill these.

Please be careful , we are not "cleaning" our kitchen counter.

[LisaGarcia]

Sadly, The last not chain pet store in my area closed it's doors on Sunday

You froggies are adorable!!! The one hiding in the flower pot is too cute! I think I might have to go get a new terracotta pot just for Hopper's quarantine.

[ColleenT]

congrats! i am sure you are not the first person to SAVE animals from pet store chains, and you won't be the last. i hope they thrive for you!

[LilyPad]

Awww congrats on your new babies, they are very pretty. I think you'll see what color the one ends up within a few days in a healthy environment. I look but don't buy at our petco and petsmart. It would be hard to resist those sweet babies though!

[irThumper]

I hope they thrive too! Now I'm in the nervous, anxious, paranoid wait and see state. I kept them in the kitchen last night, which was a good thing, because the temp low was 75 while in the plant room with all the lights off it got down to 72. The bigger green girl (I'm calling them girls for now anyway, lol) ate two crickets last night and is now asleep in the dracaena. The "Honey" was sitting on the cage floor this morning so I dropped some crickets in the glass bowl and a couple on the cage floor, I saw her get one off the floor. I know the green one poo'd in her shipping container when I brought her home but I haven't seen anything in this critter keeper yet.

These guys are around 2+ inches so how old would that make them appx? The clerk said they'd had some in the tank for a week and they just got another shipment this week, so I'm not sure if these guys were there longer or what, but they were bigger and some were pretty small.

They were free feeding the crickets, just dumping them in basically, but I'm going to bowl feed... the green one jumped at the side of the dish and bumped herself a couple times, then later when she was up on the flower pot perches she saw movement down in the dish and pounced! I'm hoping she's smart and remembers that lesson. I also hope the "Honey" figures out that trick!

There are two TINY and two medium crikets in the dish, and I turned a small and medium loose in the tank; think Honey got the medium one. Should I just keep crickets in the bowl all the time...? I want to make sure they both get some, and they aren't where I can stare at them all the time (unfortunately!) I'm wanting to leave them alone right now, too, since I know all this transitioning is very stressful to froggies.

[LilyPad]

I did 2 bowls at first with my red eyes. When I moved them out of quarantine I dropped back to one bowl and they both are great eaters. 2 bowls helps so there is no intimidation between them, they have their own space to eat.

[irThumper]

Well, even though I wanted to wait to be sure they'd be ok, they have names... "Honey Lime" (since we're not sure the pale one is a true Honey) and "Shirley-Orchid-St Paulia" for a friend of my moms who loves orchds and African violets, lol. Now Shirley seems to be doing great. She had a poo last night before she went into the critter keeper, went climbing all around that when I put them in, found the water dish, then ate two medium crickets I put in the bowl, then climbed into the dracaena and slept until tonight. She was up and the 4 crickets I had in the bowl (2 small 2 med) were gone, there was a nice poo on one of the inverted flower pots, and she is alert, active and a nice calm green. I put more criks in the dish, hoping that Honey would get some, but Shirl knows the game now so went in and gobbled up some more... Now Honey was the more active frog in the cage at the store (though Shirl was sleeping off a big feed, methinks) but, unless I'm truly being paranoid, she seems much more low key and less energetic right now. She ate only one cricket last night, which I dropped on the floor for her, roamed around a bit then bedded down in the dracaena. She was actually up this morning so I but a few more crickets in for her, which I saw her go after... I was worried at one point though because she sort of face planted on one of the flower pots while making a grab for one of the bugs, then afterwards she opened her mouth real wide and stuck out her tongue as if going "OW!" I did see her eat after that, though, so hope she's ok... I don't know if she's the one who made the one poop in the cage or not, so will have to keep an eye on her. Right now Shirl is all active and nomming bugs while Honey is just reclining on the floor... :/ Yeah, I'm paranoid. Temp actually did go down to 73 for them last night I think, as I checked the gauge we have, which tracks highs and lows in heat and temp, but that was the lowest, with temps steady between 77 and 79. Humidity is around 57% outside the cage, and it should be plenty humid enough inside with the water dish, plant, and a little bit of misting tonight. I sure hope they both turn out ok! I went back to Petco for a light today (which will be used for their big enclosure) and looked at the frogs again... there were less than the dozen that were crammed in there when I bought Honey and Shirley, and it looks like most of the really small ones were gone, except for one TINY little guy who was sleeping on a brown log and he was the same exact color as the log... with the exception of the white markings on his sides like Shirl has. He didn't have any snowflakes though. I had to say I was moronically tempted, but big as Shirley is (and with her appetite) she might have tried to make a meal of him....!

[LilyPad]

You could try hand/tong feeding too. My greys will eat that way.