Well, here we go...100 gallons. Walk me through it?!

[BCollie]

Thank you Lynn. Painting the back of the tank didn't really cross my mind, because it's already painted black. I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to make it look realistic if I painted the glass! I am determined to get this background fixed, I spent so much time on it that it WILL be fixed! I just went and bought polyurethane, they didn't have matte so I got satin. I will repair the paint job then do several coats of poly. It has a 4-5 hour drying time between coats but I'll let it dry for 6 hours since I plan on doing a thicker coat in the crevices.
1. Do I need to paint the back, bottom and sides of the foam board, too? Or just the painted area?
2. I was looking on Google at different types of vivarium mosses and I saw someone uses an aquatic moss, Xmas moss...I have a TON of this in my 20 gallon tank, a 13" long by 6" tall clump of it. Can I use this on the background??

[BCollie]

Ohh, one more question. I want to go out today and buy a cover for the tank. Right now I just have egg crate and that obviously isn't going to hold humidity in. Should I get plexiglass, or glass, or something else?? to use as a cover?

[DigitalPunk]

The Krylon "Fusion" line does not melt foams.

Xmas moss is very common in tanks. Not sure how it will do on the background, but if you keep it wet enough it should be fine.

Bill uses Lexan, similar to Plexi but better is almost every way. I prefer to buy glass for my tops. You could even put a standard Aquarium top on it. I have one on my 40b, I just reversed it so I open the bigger section to feed and mist. Makes it easier to get into the tank to work as well.

[BCollie]

I didn't know that the "Fusion" line doesn't melt foam. I'm sure it was said to me on this thread and I just didn't take a mental note that it had to be the FUSION line.

I went to Lowe's after my mom and I picked up my younger brother from school, and went searching for Lexan(Polycarbonate) sheets. They had them for $33 each, BUT...they were 2 inches too short to cut into two pieces for the tank(one for each side of the divider)!! I wasn't going to spend $66 on a top for my tank...so I looked at the glass. Unfortunately the glass they carried was too thin - I am fostering a cat that likes to jump on top of my tank. It was quite possible that she would stand on it wrong, it would break, and slice her up. Not a chance I was willing to take. I called Home Depot and they said they have Polycarbonate sheets, and right as we were about to leave one of the guys that works at Lowe's that I was talking with said he could give me a good deal on a big, thick piece of Plexiglass. It was one of the large, thick, $66 sheets. I said, "What kind of deal"? And he said...$10! He cut it into the sizes I needed and asked if I wanted what was left of the sheet, the extra stuff. When I said no, he took down the price even more.
I walked away with two nice, thick pieces of acrylic/plexiglass for $6. If it gives me any trouble I will go hunting for thicker glass or polycarbonate sheets that would fit my tank, but this seems to be nice quality stuff for a great deal.

I will try the x-mas moss AND Sphagnum moss on the background. What would be best to apply them with in case the xmas moss ends up dying and needs to be taken off?
I just finished applying the first coat of Polyeurethane to the first two pieces of the background, still have one piece to go. Since it goes on pretty thick in the crevices(back says to apply a THIN, in all caps, layer) I'm going to let it dry overnight. It's unavoidable that it goes on thick in the crevices, unfortunately. Should be done with this background by tomorrow or the day after!!

[DigitalPunk]

Awesome deal! My only beef with Plexiglass is after a while it started to sag on me and created a potential escape route for frogs and a definite path to freedom for fruit flies. I have since switched to just using plain ole aquarium tops on any aquariums I keep.

Be sure you put the same number of coats of the polyurethane on the back and sides of the foam. Water WILL get in between the foam and behind it. You don't want it to be exposed at all or it will start to break down and fall apart over time. Trust me I lived through it, its a nightmare that you want to avoid at all cost. So please take the time to coat the tops, sides, bottom and back with 2 coats minimum

If mounting moss I either use Zip ties and cut it to length and with a bit of a point and bend it into a U shape over the moss or I will use floral wire and pin it to the wall in much the same way. I prefer the floral wire because it makes a much smaller hole in the foam. Or you could put some little dots of hot glue and press the moss into it.

[BCollie]

Mine is nice and thick so hopefully it won't sag, but if it does I'll hunt down some cat-proof glass, or polycarbonate. I laughed at your saying ". . .freedom for fruit flies." I can just imagine fruit flies running out of the tank and crawling all over your house!

One step ahead of you on sealing the foam!! But I'm glad you said something, I can see how it would be very bad if I hadn't thought of that. This project is ALMOST done, I'm sooo ready to move onto the next stage of putting together my vivarium. Right about the time you posted, I had just finished sealing 5 sides(front, back, and 3 out of 4 edges...didn't do the bottom edge because it's resting on the bottom edge while it dries)...First coat, DONE on 5 of 6 sides. Before I go to bed, once the 5 sides are dry enough to rest on the ground, I will paint the bottom edges on all 3 boards. And repeat 2 more times, for a total of 3 coats. I should be done with this by late tomorrow or early day after tomorrow. Then I can move on to getting the soil put together.
Now, I do have some questions about the polyurethane...
1. The can says to sand between coats. Does this include when you're painting it onto a painted surface? It doesn't specify.
2. If I sand between coats should I do 4 coats instead of 3?
3. Do I need to worry about getting the poly into EVERY little crack like I did with both the paint and the first coat of poly? I mean, on one hand if I get it into every little crack every time, it might get way too thick and not dry(it's impossible to not get a thick coat into the cracks). BUT if I don't get it into every little crack, the paint may run on places I missed. I was sure I had gotten it 99% covered but as you saw after I sprayed the Krylon, I had obviously missed some tinnnyyy, invisible little cracks.

I think I will go with hot glue to stick the moss onto the background, it's the method that will show the least, I think.

[DigitalPunk]

I agree that gluing is probably best

I know there is a fine line between doing a good job sealing something and not doing a good job. I would try to get it as evenly covered as you can. My guess is you didnt miss any spots with the paint, but the Krylon you were using has an acid type base to it and clearly made it through the paint. All it would have taken is a little microscopic spot and it would have been all over.

The Polyurethane will smell awesome (sarcasm for really bad) for a few days or a bit longer. It is best to just let it air out or the smell seems to settle into the tank for the long haul. I had one tank that reeked because I rushed the moving past sealing the background. Building tanks is incredibly rewarding and fun for me, but at times it can be the single most aggravating part of my life lol.

All you can really do is do your best and learn from any mistakes you come across. Some mistakes wont be apparent for a long time until one day you notice a major flaw and hang your head and wonder to yourself if you will let the tank win this round. Some mistakes dont require the tank to be torn apart, but on more than one occasion I have had to remove a feature or completely rethink how I was going to do something.


Sanding between coats seems excessive, I am sure it is to make sure the subsequent coats have a textured surface to adhere to. I will leave this up to your best judgment. I use the Krylon Fusion Polyurethane and haven't done any sanding between coats.

[BCollie]

Hmm...I have no experience with using polyurethane so unless someone chimes in with a "sand it!" or "don't sand it!" I will use a VERY fine sand paper to give it just a little bit of texture, but not enough to take it off. Seems like a good medium to me.
Today I learned that a little poly goes a LONG way. I thought, "oh, those tinnyy cans of poly are going to not be nearly enough" so I bought either a pint or a quart...I don't know which. It was about the same size as the latex paint I bought to paint my 35 gallon tank rims/stand, inside and out, about the same amount of square footage as the 3 foam boards. Maybe a little more. But after I started using it I realized the tinnnyy can would have been MORE than enough, and that I now have enough polyurethane to last me the rest of my life! LOL! That stuff spreads really well, just a few drops covers an entire "rock".

Okay, let's play around with something different for a little bit. I'm comparing Josh's Frogs and NeHerp for ordering plants, which will be done as soon as
1. My tank is set up with the background and soil and wood in it
2. My aquarium filter sells
I'm advertising my filter for $275 but will go as low as $200(not advertising that part, I just said I'll haggle ) so as soon as I sell the filter I SHOULD have enough to order both the plants and the bugs I need. Oh, and leaf litter if I can't find it locally. If I remember right it was recommended to me that I culture my fruit flies long before I get my frogs, so I'm wondering...
1. Should I order my fruit flies when I order my plants?
1.1 If so, should I order just a culture or two of flies, or should I order the 10-pack fruit fly culture kit including live flies?
2. Should I order springtails?
2.1 Should I order just springtails, or a springtail breeding kit, too?
If I am remembering correctly, springtails are a good thing to have in a vivarium...correct me if I'm wrong.

This is all stuff I need have figured out sooner or later, and it's fun to get my mind off of the background for a while and think about some other aspect of the tank. I could be ready to order this stuff next week, or it might be months. It all depends on when my filter sells.

P.S. I LOVVVEE the smell of Polyurethane. I'm sure my frogs wouldn't like it much and it probably wouldn't be good for them, so I'll let it dry out for a few days before putting it in the tank(or will let it dry until I can stick my nose against it and not smell anything, whichever comes first)...but gosh, I love the smell of stuff like that. Paint, gasoline, polyurethane, propane...I guess I'm just really weird! lol! Can I put a fan running against the boards when I'm finished to speed up the drying/de-smelly-ing process? I'm sooo ready to move on to the next step but I won't rush it if it's not a good idea.
Back to comparing Josh's Frogs and NeHerp...seeing which is the better value for what I'm buying since both seem to be good sources.

[BCollie]

**marks new expenses
EXPENSES as of Oct 7th
**2 large pieces of thick Plexiglass for vivarium cover, $6
**Enough polyurethane to last the rest of my life, $16
Non-toxic acrylic paint and paint brushes, $7
Clear, Matte Finish Krylon Spray Paint, $5
Fiberglass window screen $5
1.5cf river pebbles $15
Three 2x2 foam panels $16
Low Temp Hot glue gun&glue: $8
Quilt Batting: $8
Walmart razor blades for scraping glass clean: $5
Soil mixture(Orchid Bark, Sphagnum Moss, Peat Moss, Charcoal, Fir Bark): $74
Plants: $13
Total spent so far: $178
Remaining: $43

EXPENSES as of Oct 5th/6th, 2014
Non-toxic acrylic paint and paint brushes, $7
Clear, Matte Finish Krylon Spray Paint, $5
Fiberglass window screen $5
1.5cf river pebbles $15
Three 2x2 foam panels $16
Low Temp Hot glue gun&glue: $8
Quilt Batting: $8
Walmart razor blades for scraping glass clean: $5
Soil mixture(Orchid Bark, Sphagnum Moss, Peat Moss, Charcoal, Fir Bark): $74
Plants: $13
Total spent so far: $156
Remaining: $38

EXPENSES as of Oct 4th, 2014
Fiberglass window screen $5
1.5cf river pebbles $15
Three 2x2 foam panels $16
Low Temp Hot glue gun&glue: $8
Quilt Batting: $8
Walmart razor blades for scraping glass clean: $5
Soil mixture(Orchid Bark, Sphagnum Moss, Peat Moss, Charcoal, Fir Bark): $74
Plants: $13
Total spent so far: $144
Remaining: $50

EXPENSES as of Oct 3rd, 2014:
Starting budget: $167
Walmart razor blades for scraping glass clean: $5
Soil mixture(Orchid Bark, Sphagnum Moss, Peat Moss, Charcoal, Fir Bark): $74
Plants: $13
Total spent so far: $92
Remaining: $75

[DigitalPunk]

Through Black Jungle in the mix for your plant shopping. I actually like the choices at Black Jungle the best, but they are not the cheapest around. I prefer to buy any moss, wood, springtail cultures (if I am dumping them in a tank), and fruit fly cultures from NeHerp. I typically only buy Frogs, Springtails (if I am creating a breeding culture), and supplements fro Josh's Frogs. Black Jungle I have only bought Plants from.

I have bought Leaf liter from all 3. Leaf liter is leaf liter. NeHerp has thrown in extra bags of leaf liter out of the kindness of their heart, but they don't do that every time.

A fan wouldn't hurt at all and I wouldn't consider it "rushing" more like speeding the boring drying phase along lol.

Fruit Flies - I would order your first culture and culturing supplies about a month before you are ready to order your frogs. This will give you time to practice your culturing. If you are having issues with getting cultures to work (it isn't hard, but I failed at my first attempt) than you can delay the frog purchase and save yourself the stress of running out of food.

Springtails - I would buy a culture for the tank (just dump it right into the tank) and buy a culture to put in a breeding box. Your frogs will eat the springtails as they find them so you want to have some extras reproducing for you so you can dump more into the tank routinely. Ideally you add the initial culture to the soil 30days or so before the frogs. This will give them time to breed and have their first "boom" in population before the frogs show up to attempt mass genocide lol.

[BCollie]

NeHerp:
6 ferns
4 vines and trailing plants
4 ferns/terrestrial plants
4 Tillandsias
12x12 NEHERP moss
18 plants + moss + FF and springtail cultures + leaf litter for $250(free shipping)
NeHerp PROS: Plants seem to be bigger
Moss is included in plant package
$50 cheaper
CONS: Cultures may not be well started

Josh's Frogs:
5 Bromliads
2 ferns or selaginella
2 vining plants
6 assorted tropic plants
5 ferns
20 plants + leaf litter + FF and Springtail cultures for $305($305 includes $57 shipping)
Josh’s Frogs PROS: Cultures are well started
Larger assortment of plants
CONS:
$50 more expensive
Plants may be smaller
Does not include moss

Between Josh's Frogs and NeHerp we have an obvious winner - NeHerp! I will compare NeHerp against Black Jungle after I get home from class today!
I'm also going to see if I can find Live Oak trees locally so I can save myself $45 and just collect/process my own leaf litter.

Can I go out and buy Krylon spray-on Polyurethane?
Krylon® Clear Polyurethane Coating
And use it for my last coat? IMO it is worth the extra $7 out of my budget to save myself 1.5-2 HOURS of applying the last coat. It is so time consuming and boring, I'd rather spend $7 and be able to get the last coat over with in just a few minutes, if that will work. I'll be near Redding(local town) and can stop by Michaels, Lowes, or Home Depot(etc) to pick it up.

[DigitalPunk]

Yes just make sure it is Krylon Fusion Poly.

Black Jungle will be more expensive but they have a much larger plant selection the NeHerp and a better/more rare selection than Josh's Frogs.

[BCollie]

I'll take a look at it!Hmm...I don't think there's such a thing as Krylon Fusion Polyurethane, I only see plain Krylon Polyurethane?

[Strider18]

I found out the hard way with spray paint, it melts the foam! I had a final project due for a program I did and the whole thing shrank and crumpled up I know how you feel about that, and now I know not to use spray paint or any thing that has a propelent in it on foam :P

[BCollie]

Does that include Krylon Polyurethane, I wonder? Because I'm looking and I'm not finding Krylon Fusion Polyurethane

[DigitalPunk]

I have used the Clear Poly on Spray foam, but it was covered in 3 layers of Water proof wood glue...

[BCollie]

Hmm...I guess it can't hurt to buy it and test it on the spare piece of foam I have, right?

[BCollie]

First figure out the total number of cubic feet of substrate you need. Multiple length x width x height, make sure the units are in feet. Your tank is 16" wide, this is 16/12=1.25'.

So if you wanted 3" deep substrate, 3/12=0.25', you'd need:

5' x 1.25' x 0.25' = 1.5625 cu. ft. total substrate

If you wanted 6" deep substrate, 6/12=0.5', you'd need:

5' x 1.25 x 0.5' = 3.125 cu. ft. total substrate

etc.

Add up the total number of 'parts' in the recipe you're using, for example (taken from here):

2 parts fine fir bark ( sometimes seen as "orchid bark" in the list of ingredients)
2 parts fine tree fern fiber
2 parts milled sphagnum moss
1 part fine charcoal
1 part peat moss

Has 8 parts (2+2+2+1+1). So 2/8= 1/4 of the recipe will be orchid bark. 1/4 will be tree fern fiber. 1/4 will be sphagnum. 1/8 charcoal, and another 1/8 peat.

Take the total cubic feet of substrate divide by 4 to get how much orchid bark, fern fiber, and sphagnum. Divide by 8 to get charcoal and peat. It's generally best to buy too much rather than too little, even doubling what you think you'll want won't hurt. Any excess can be used on your next tank or for potting plants you're propagating.

You can save on the charcoal by using hardwood lump charcoal designed for bbq's coupled with a hammer for smashing it. This is messy though (dusty), and if you go this route make sure there are no additives to the kind you get (lighter fluid for easy starting will be the most common).

Words can't explain how much I love this post from page 3.

While my background is drying over the next day or two, I would like to get my soil mixture made up.

I decided I want 5" of substrate, so I did:
5' x 1.25' x ~0.42 = 2.625 cubic feet of substrate.
I am doing the following "recipe":
2pt Tree Fernfiber(using FIR BARK as a substitute as recommended to me), 1pt peat, 1pt charcoal, 2pt sphagnum, 2pt orchid bark
Has 8 total parts. SO divide 2.625CF of total substrate by 4 for Fir Bark, Sphagnum, and Orchid Bark. Divide 2.625CF of total substrate by 8 for peat and charcoal.
2pts Fir Bark: ~0.66CF
2pts Sphagnum: ~0.66CF
2pts Orchid Bark: ~0.66CF
1pt Peat: ~0.33CF
1pt Charcoal: ~0.33CF

A 5-gallon bucket is approximately 2/3 of a CF, AKA .66 CF. I can take a full five gallon bucket of Fir Bark, a five gallon bucket of Sphagnum, and a 5 gallon bucket of Orchid bark. Half a five gallon bucket of peat, and half a five gallon bucket of Charcoal...put it all in a large tub and mix it up to make my soil/ABG substitute.

Does this all sound right?

[DigitalPunk]

Without actually doing the math myself that sounds good to me That is going to be a LOT of soil lol.

Keep in mind that your 5" of soil will be sitting on top of your 2 - 3" of drainage layer. This will equal 7 - 8" of height you are losing to the drainage layer and soil alone. Typically soil is done at 3". Not that doing 5" is wrong it is just a bit of overkill.


Just trying to keep you thinking of the end result so you keep it all in focus

[BCollie]

Hmm okay. I think what I will do then is follow what I've listed above, but only put in 3"-4" in the tank, and save the rest.